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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Jun 20 8:35 am)


 Subject: POSER's units

Desiderius opened this issue on Mar 01, 2009 · 45 posts

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  ockham    ( ) ( posted at 2:12PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · edited on 2:13PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · @3398839

The 100% option doesn't mean "100% of OBJ size" ... it means "100% of typical figure size".

So the height is set at 1.8 meters, which is presumably an average human height.

If you want the OBJ to be unchanged, just uncheck the "% size" box.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 2:18PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · edited on 2:24PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · @3398842

Attached Link: "Poser's Scale" tutorial compliments of Dr Geep Studios


(click image to view full size)
(click link above the image to view the complete tutorial)

Did someone say ..... :Scale?" ... :lol:

Check out the tut and meet the "real" Poser Native! :biggrin:

View 'em in good health. 😄

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

P.S.  The bottom line is:

1.000 Poser native units = (exactly)  1.000 Wavefront OBJect units

Wavefront OBJect units are commonly used by many modeling applications, e.g., Carrara, et al.

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  geep    ( ) ( posted at 2:26PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · edited on 2:27PM Sun, 01 March 2009 · @3398854


FYI - The DGS (universal) Scale for Poser

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  stewer    ( ) ( posted at 2:28PM Sun, 01 March 2009  · @3398858

Quote - At first I modelled a 1m edge length cube in x0y0z0 position with my modeller software and save it as object file.

And that is where it lost its size.
OBJ files don't contain any real world sizes - not meters, not inches, not anything. They just contain numbers without unit. The interpretation of those numbers is left to the imagination of the programs that read and write them and rarely they do agree.


  Desiderius    ( ) ( posted at 2:53PM Sun, 01 March 2009  · @3398877

MAny thank's ... Busy to read these tuto now ;)


  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 2:57PM Sun, 01 March 2009  · @3398879

FYI

Dr. Geep's Scale (DGS) is handy for making mental arithmetic easier, but it won't help you do precise work in Poser.

It is debatable (and, indeed, debated endlessly) as to whether Poser's "inch" is really an inch. The argument usually revolves around the real-world height of humans versus commonly used Poser figures, all of which (women included) seem to be over six feet tall. They read out shorter if you believe DGS.

Nevertheless, when dealing with procedural geometry, particularly procedural displacement in shaders or procedural construction of objects using other tools, it is important that you understand the conversions.

I like what you did regarding moving an object versus another to see what offset you end up with. That's a good technique for understanding and proving various things to yourself.

Now then, regardless of whether we like it or not, a Poser Native Unit (PNU) has a certain ratio to a Poser Inch. And a Poser Inch has a certain ratio to a Poser Meter, and so on.

Now as far as I can tell, the ratios of inches/feet to centimeters/meters in Poser are the same as the real world. All that remains is to understand the nature of PNU, and you can produce coordinates in your obj that are completely predictable.

Now some people don't believe me, but the ratio of PNU to inch is this:

1 PNU = 103.200005 Poser Inches

You may think that 103.2 is good enough, and often it is. But if you're doing procedural displacements, you need all the precision you can get. I developed a shader that produces perfect rounded edges on boxes. When I say perfect, I mean you can zoom into a rounded edge of radius 1 mm and it looks perfect with no creases. You cannot get that with the assumed ratio of 103.2 - you have to use 103.200005.

From that number, you can derive the ratios to all others, such as meters.

As well, in materials we have the P node, which gives numbers indicating the exact world coordinate of the point currently being shaded. This is useful for making effects that depend on position within the scene. The P node returns XYZ coordinates as a color, scaled by the 3 arguments to the node. When the arguments are equal to 1.0, the returned data units are 1/10 of a Poser inch. Strange, huh? So

1 Poser Inch = 10 P Node Units (not to be confused with PNU)

That means that if you want to measure positions in inches inside a shader, you have to divide by 10, or use .1 in the parameters to the P node, to get a number that is inches.

Finally we have the units of displacement and bump. In the material room, the units are whatever you've chosen for Poser Display Units. So if you start with inches, and set a displacement of 1, and you switch to centimeters, that displacement value will display as 2.54.

Regardless of what your chosen PDU is, the values stored in material files (MT5 and so on) for displacement and bump scales are always in inches. So if you create materials using external tools (as I do) then you need to know how to encode such things.

Ray bias and other effect controls such as AO distance seem to be also using displacement units, i.e. inches. However, I have evidence that the material AO distance is mistakenly 1/12 of an inch. (Some programmer thought he had to convert between feet and inches, but that was already done somewhere else.) Or maybe it's actually 1/10 of an inch and my experiments were imprecise. (I did them a long time ago when I was less clear on things, as you are now.)

If anything else seems strange or unclear, come back. I think knowing these things is important if you want to create content for Poser using software outside Poser, especially if you write any of this software, as I do.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  Desiderius    ( ) ( posted at 3:24PM Sun, 01 March 2009  · @3398891

Thank you Bagginsbill, very usefull informations ... and be sure, I will come back with another question ;)))
It's always nice to learn and share the knowledge ;))


  geep    ( ) ( posted at 10:48AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3399993

Attached Link: DGS and examples if you scroll down ... ;=]


Quote - FYI

Dr. Geep's Scale (DGS) is handy for making mental arithmetic easier, but it won't help you do precise work in Poser.

My dear bagginsbil,

Um, 'scuze me Bill but I must respectfully disagree.

Using DGS, one can position objects with EXACT precision right down to whatever decimal place you wish to choose.

You can change the "Sensitivity:" of any parameter dial and position objects with exact precision.

Example:

Load a square (or box) ... then load another square (or box) and change xTran to 0.100 to place the second square (or box) exactly on top of the first square (or box).  These values are precise and can be verified by exporting the 2 objects to another modeling program or use a text editor to view the coordinates of the vertices of both objects and see that the top of the first object is in exactly the same location as the bottom of the second object.

Try it, you'll like it. 😄

This precision is illustrated in the above image which used DGS to build the house that is shown.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 10:59AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400001

Dr. Geep,

Perhaps I misunderstood DGS.

When you say to use .1 you mean .1 PNU, right? Because that is the correct value for dimension of a Poser one-sided square or a Poser box. I agree with that, totally, and it is very precise.

The question is, how many inches is that?

I thought that DGS declares, by fiat, that a PNU is 100 inches, not 103.20005. Are you saying you used 103.20005, not 100?

I will download your 6-poly box as you linked, but where is "Dr. Geep's Scale"? Meaning, DGS is not a prop, it's a unit system, isn't it? Analogous to inches versus centimeters? 

My point is, if you are trying to displace a surface exactly 1 Poser inch to match or touch some other surface that is one Poser inch away you need to use a displacement value of 1 in the material. My point is also that the distance just discussed is 1/103.200005 PNU. Are you saying you agree with that point, or does DGS say an inch is 1/100 PNU?


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:00AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400003

More specifically, what do you claim, under DGS, are the dimensions of the 6-poly box?


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:02AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400005

Oh I see, that diagram is DGS?

OK it's wrong. .01 PNU is not an inch. Sorry.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 11:02AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400000


(click the image to view full size)
(then right click and "Save Image As..." if desired)

Did someone say, ... Standard Figure Height? :blink:

FWIW - Here's a table you can use with object Imports. 😄
(sorry bill, it uses DGS) ... :scared:___Oh NOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo..............
Note - Poser will constrain the maximum (x, y, or z) size to the value shown in the above table.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:04AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400008

I should have used the word "accurate" not precise. DGS is precise, but it is not accurate.

In target shooting, precision is when you put 5 bullets into the same spot. It may be that you didn't hit the bullseye, but the consistent shot demonstrates precision. If you put 5 bullets next to the bullseye, that's precise but inaccurate.

If you put them all roughly in the center of the bullseye, but they vary in exact position, then that is accurate but imprecise.

My claim is that DGS is precise but inaccurate.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:06AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400009

Crosspost. OK it's what I thought in the first place.

DGS defines an inch that is not the same as a Poser inch. As long as you agree that you can't match .01 PNU with a Poser inch, then we're consonant. A DGS inch != a Poser inch.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 11:17AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400015

Bill,

If you have the "Display Units" set to "Poser native units" then when a parameter dial reads 1.000, it is exactly 100.0" (DGS) ... NOT using Poser's "inches" ( <--- Display Units).

1.000 Pnu = 100.0" DGS
0.100 Pnu = 10.0" DGS
0.010 Pnu = 1.0" DGS
0.001 Pnu = 0.1" DGS
----- and using numerical entry for a parameter dial value) ----
0.0001 Pnu = 0.01" DGS
0.00001 Pnu = 0.001" DGS - (one thousanth of an inch - precisely)
0.000001 Pnu = 0.0001" DGS - (one tenthousanth of an inch - precisely)
etc.

To answer your previous question ...
The 6 Poly Box is exactly the same size as Poser's Box prop and measures exactly 10.0" x 10.0" x 10.0" DGS ( NOT Poser's Display Unit's "inches".

I hope this clarifies  the matter. 😄

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  geep    ( ) ( posted at 11:18AM Tue, 03 March 2009 · edited on 11:24AM Tue, 03 March 2009 · @3400016

Quote - Crosspost. OK it's what I thought in the first place.

DGS defines an inch that is not the same as a Poser inch. As long as you agree that you can't match .01 PNU with a Poser inch, then we're consonant. A DGS inch != a Poser inch.

1.00 DGS inch equals exactly 0.010 Poser native units. (<--- Display units)

1.00 DGS inch  does NOT equal a 1.0 Poser inch  (<--- Display units)

Eggsactly 😄 ... You got it Toyota ... and Thank you. :biggrin:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  markschum    ( ) ( posted at 11:31AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400027

Either curious labs or e-frontier (I dont remember which) had Poser native units as having changed slightly when Poser 6 was introduced. The difference was minor

ONE POSER NATIVE UNIT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF 8.6 FEET, OR 262.128 CENTIMETERS from the Poser 7 manual , thats 103.2"  

I use a conversion factor that a friend had developed and while not accurate it is close enough for modelling in real world units .


  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:59AM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400039

Right we're in agreement on what DGS is and why it is convenient. We're not in agreement on when it is convenient and when it isn't. I understand that if you set your display units to PNU, then you can dial in DGS inches in increments of .01, precisely. And that the mental arithmetic is easy. To go 12 DGS inches away from your original spot, you use .12 PNU in a translate dial. To go 10 DGS feet away from your original spot, you use 1.2 PNU in a translate dial. I never disputed that. Keeping your Poser display units in PNU and using 100 as the ratio to inches is certainly convenient. And it is only 3% different from the Poser Inch.

But if you have to deal with the positions, sizes, or scales of other things such as displacement or P node coordinates or props made by other people who did NOT start with the DGS premise, items that are expressed as Poser inches or meters and not DGS inches or meters, this is NOT convenient. DGS is convenient if and only if everything you're working with is in nice round DGS units. For example, the very nice P.I.C.K construction kits are all built around integer multiples of a Poser Meter. If you want to build your own props to match those sizes, DGS will not be convenient, nor will Poser Inches, for that matter. In that case, you want to set your Poser Display Units to meters and dial in quantities in meters. Anything else is a pain in the butt.

Similarly, it is quite straightforward to set your Poser Display Units (PDU) to Poser Inches, dial in 1 for an inch (a Poser Inch), or 12 for a foot, or 120 for 10 feet, and you'll match the other stuff built around Poser inches accurately and with no mental arithmetic whatsoever, stuff like P node units and displacements.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 12:04PM Tue, 03 March 2009  · @3400042

Quote - Either curious labs or e-frontier (I dont remember which) had Poser native units as having changed slightly when Poser 6 was introduced. The difference was minor

ONE POSER NATIVE UNIT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF 8.6 FEET, OR 262.128 CENTIMETERS from the Poser 7 manual , thats 103.2"  

I use a conversion factor that a friend had developed and while not accurate it is close enough for modelling in real world units .

Close enough for some things, not others.

Load a prop. Set your Poser Display Units to PNU. Set yTran to 100,000. Change your PDU to Poser Inches. Look at the yTran dial. It has changed to 10320000. That's support for the idea that the ratio is 103.2. However, the dial is truncating digits.

Click on it. The text edit box that comes up now shows 10320000.458. That's why I said to use 103.200005. That's close enough for displacements to be accurate. The 103.2 is close enough for most modeling, but not for displacements.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  EnglishBob    ( ) ( posted at 6:01AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 6:03AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411293

After some research, and some thinking, I've come to the conclusion that Poser's scale always has been 1 PNU = 103.2 inches. Here's why.

Quoting page 167 of the Poser 4 manual:

"When importing DXF format files, Poser considers one DXF unit equal to the male figure’s height -- about six feet."

The community reasonably assumed from this that the current male figure of the day (affectionately known as the Poser Dork) was supposed to be six feet tall. This isn't actually so. As we've already established in this thread, the infamous import dialogue box sets the scaling of your imported mesh relative to its own internal idea of a standard figure, not relative to the size of your mesh. Whatever you import, if you enter 100% in this box, the model will end up in Poser 0.6975 PNU high. I don't know what figure height that is, but it isn't the P4 man, who is about 0.75 PNU high.

Now if we take this "standard figure" as the six-foot norm, that makes Poser's internal scale at the time of Poser 3 and 4 to be 1 PNU = 103.226 inches - close enough to 103.2 for me, at any rate. If we work the maths backwards, then the 100% import gives you an object which is 0.6975 * 103.2 = 71.982 inches. I can accept that as being "about six feet" quite easily.

Even the Poser Dork is 6' 5" tall by this scale, and Posette is 6' 1", so you can see that the rot set in early on. No point in blaming DAZ for making V4 6' 4" tall, they just built upon what was already there...

I've been writing a sort of essay-cum-green paper on the subject of scale. It's about time this was taken out of the realm of religious issues and into scientific fact. :)


  geep    ( ) ( posted at 8:29AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 8:31AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411336

Attached Link: "Dr Geep's Scale" - (DGS) - The History of the Poser Native Unit (Pnu)


*(click image to view full size)
(click link above image to view the history of the Pnu)

:lol: ... Ok, ok, HERE are the scientific facts! ... :lol:*

*And ... *

*A "final" 😄 word regarding Dr Geep's Scale (DGS).

It is not, nor has it ever been. my intention to start or continue a "holy war" regarding the "Scale" in Poser. 😄

:biggrin: Click the link and meet the "real" Poser native! :biggrin:

DGS was invented before any "Real World Scale" was available in Poser.
That was during the heady days of Poser 4. :biggrin:

A "Poser native unit" is exactly the same as ...
... a "Wavefront OBJect unit" ... (from ~25 years ago - that's a quarter of a century!)
...  which has been an industry standard in the 3D graphics world for many years, e.g., Wings3D, RaytDream Studio, Carrara, etc. and is the same unit of measure (UOM) as a "dxf unit", also, used in many 3D computer graphics and engineering applications.

And ...  A Pnu is the same in Poser(1), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.  It has never changed.!!!
One can not say the same for Poser's feet, inches, cm, mm, etc. between various versions of Poser, i.e., a P5 inch not the same as a P6 inch.

And ...DGS works! 😄 Ask anyone who uses it. 😄

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  geep    ( ) ( posted at 8:35AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 8:37AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411384


CLICK ME, I'm a good lookin' guy! (but he is, also, a liar) :thumbdown:

Here he is ... just in case you didn't want to click the link in my last post, ha ha. :biggrin:

Meet the "real" Poser native ... you know, the guy what invented the Pnu. :lol:

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 8:37AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411388

We know all that, DG :) I think we're all pretty clear on what to do once something is in Poser.

The question was/is:

Quote - "what are these stupid units used by Poser's import options?"

And stewer gives the answer:

Quote - OBJ files don't contain any real world sizes - not meters, not inches, not anything. They just contain numbers without unit. The interpretation of those numbers is left to the imagination of the programs that read and write them and rarely they do agree.

Now you just said:

Quote - A "Poser native unit" is exactly the same as ...
... a "Wavefront OBJect unit"

Put the two statements together and we get:

A "Poser native unit" is no unit at all, with respect to import.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 8:39AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 8:42AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411391

Eggszactly! 😄

Isn't that what I just said? ... In 25 words ... or more! :lol:

DGS attempts to make a correlation between the Pnu and the Real World that is consistent across all versions of Poser, nothing more, nothing less. 😄

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 8:49AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411400

But DG, the meaning of a OBJ unit (and therefore a Poser Native Unit) is arbitrary and left to the individual software.

Desiderius said "At first I modelled a 1m edge length cube in x0y0z0 position with my modeller software and save it as object file."

But what does that mean? If his modeler declares that 1 meter = 1 OBJ unit, yet Poser import declares that 1 OBJ unit = 1 PNU = 103.2 inches, that's a problem. How does DGS come into play here? I understand you love DGS and find it really useful. But you have not yet explained how desiderius gets his 1 meter modeled cube into Poser as a 1 meter Poser cube. How does DGS help there? A DGS meter is not a Poser meter. Nor are we actually sure that 1 model meter = 1 OBJ unit.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 9:05AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411411

Ah HA.

The "kicker" here is "my modeler" ... which is what?

I do not know nor do I care to try and figure out what scale "my modeler" is using.

However, if one creates a cube in any modeler (that uses Wavefron OBJect units) and makes that cube exactly 1.000 Wavefront OBJect units in size then when that object is exported from that modeler (providing that the scale is not modified by the modeler's export routine* and then  imported into Poser (without changing it's Scale, i.e., UNcheck "Percent of ...") then said object cube will be exactly 100 DGS inches in (any version of) Poser.

  • which can be easily done in Carrara if the Scale is not (re)set to 100% in the Assembly Room before export

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  EnglishBob    ( ) ( posted at 9:38AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411450

:rolleyes:

Quote - ...a P5 inch not the same as a P6 inch.

Out of interest, what was the P5 scale? I don't feel inclined to reinstall Poser 5 just to find out.


  EnglishBob    ( ) ( posted at 9:42AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411454

Oh, and purely in the interests of scientific veracity, my measurements indicate that the Poser 1 man is 0.75011468 PNU from fingertip to fingertip. He's 0.67781 PNU tall, so he isn't the mythical "standard figure" either. I haven't found a Poser figure that is, yet. 


  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 9:45AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 9:48AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411458

Heheh. You don't give up easily.

Let me be more clear by setting up a specific scenario.

The user is trying to build a wall panel prop to go with the P.I.C.K. construction kit to build indoor scenes. That kit is built so that every component is an easy multiple of a Poser meter. By snapping together wall units, window units, corner units, door units, etc. you can build a very beautiful room in a few minutes. (And there are Python tools to accelerate that, too.)

Now every one of these components is 1 Poser meter wide. The user is trying to model a crown molding that he can parent to these units to make a very nice looking joint between the ceiling and the wall. If these pieces are to fit together accurately, they must be 1 Poser meter in width.

Now the user successfully constructs his crown molding prop and exports it such that its width is precisely 1 OBJ unit. Upon importing it, its width will be 1 PNU. He needs it to match the wall units which are 1 Poser meter in width.

So he needs to "scale" the prop to some specific value. He must calculate what that scale should be, so that after scaling the prop, its width matches the wall unit exactly.

So there is some conversion required here, involving something. I believe that the derivation of the corect scale value will have nothing to do with DGS. But you bring it up again and again as if it does. I didn't see desiderius ever ask for how to transfer a 1 meter DGS cube from his modeler to Poser. I saw a request for a 1 meter cube. The modeler has a definition relating a meter to OBJ units. Poser has a definition releting a meter to OBJ units. I'm not aware that DGS is involved in either of those defintiions.

Is there something I'm not seeing here, some calculation where in this process of importing the crown molding, I need to consult the DGS scale?


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

  geep    ( ) ( posted at 10:14AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411474

No. 😄

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  geep    ( ) ( posted at 10:29AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · edited on 10:30AM Fri, 20 March 2009 · @3411491


(click image to view full size)

Special for EnglishBob.

Someone say Poser 5? 😄

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  EnglishBob    ( ) ( posted at 10:38AM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411492

Quote - Someone say Poser 5?

Yes they did. Cheers doc - so Poser 5 used the 1 PNU = 96" scale, did it? This gets more interesting, or possibly less. It's Friday and my eyes and brain are longing for the weekend. :sleep:


  geep    ( ) ( posted at 12:10PM Fri, 20 March 2009  · @3411577

:lol: ... longing for the weekend. YUP! :biggrin:

Enjoy it  ................ when it gets here.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"


cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019



  lmckenzie    ( ) ( posted at 12:50AM Sat, 21 March 2009  · @3411903

Calling Pink Pony. 

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  primorge    ( ) ( posted at 5:36PM Tue, 02 June 2015  · @4206184

Interesting.


  ram1520    ( ) ( posted at 11:44AM Mon, 24 October 2016 · edited on 11:51AM Mon, 24 October 2016 · @4287742

I have a series of questions -- related to Poser Units and Poser Scale -- because this has BUGGED me for a very long time.

The Questions start with a Picture of two doors.

The question: Which door looks more like the size of doors in your house or office?

The Orange door or the Blue door. Question.png

The model is Victoria 4, un-morphed or scaled. PS the answer to this question, will solve all the questions about PNU's.


  SamTherapy    ( ) ( posted at 1:33PM Mon, 24 October 2016  · @4287762

The blue one, assuming the figure is around 6' tall.

In the UK, doors are usually 2 metres high, near enough to 6'6" Width varies, because new doors are at least 3" wider than the old standard of 2'6". Office doors tend to be bigger still, possibly to make it easier to move furniture, copiers and so forth in and out. The last purpose built offices I worked in, all the doors were 2.5 metres high by 1.25 metres wide. I don't know if that's the current standard (or indeed was any kind of standard) but that's what they were.

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  ram1520    ( ) ( posted at 7:47PM Mon, 24 October 2016 · edited on 7:51PM Mon, 24 October 2016 · @4287805

Victoria is 178cm tall or 5'10-1/4" the door was modeled at 838x1981x44mm in Hexagon.

The Blue door is correctly sized at 1981mm tall. The Orange door is only 1844mm tall rather short for a door, (unless you live in a medieval castle.)

Both doors were exported from the same base model. The Blue door was exported with a scale factor of .4101 and the units of meters and the Orange Door was Exported with a scale factor of .3815 and Meters for units. Both were imported into Poser with Centered and Place on floor checked everything else unchecked.

The two door were then Exported from Poser 10 and the Scene saved as a PZ3 file and Exported as a DXF.

The doors were then imported back to Hexagon and remained the same size, thus proving I can round trip the door and maintain the dimensional integrity of the Measurements, important if you are going to create morphs.

The Scene was opened in Daz Studio and the doors remained the same size.

In Carrara they were the same Size. When the Exported DXF was opened in Turbo CAD they were the same Size.

One other point, Victoria 4 is 178cm in Hexagon, Carrara, Daz Studio and Turbo CAD.

The same door modeled in Blender, exported with a Scale Factor of 2.0505, was the same size as the Blue door.

I would consider the Blue door to be in the Proper Scale, to match all the figures including Poser Andy.

!Taleof2doorsPoser.jpg Taleof2doorsDS.jpg CarraraRender.jpg

I have given you all of this so you can double check my findings. You will need Fire Angle's Poser height measuring rulers.


  WandW    ( ) ( posted at 5:41PM Tue, 25 October 2016  · @4287895

Sometime after this thread was started, English Bob put together a nice dissertation on the history and use of Poser Units... 😼

http://www.morphography.uk.vu/scaleobj.html

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  RorrKonn    ( ) ( posted at 12:38AM Wed, 26 October 2016 · edited on 12:40AM Wed, 26 October 2016 · @4287909

Every modeler has different measurements n XYZ's. So Max 1CM n a C4D 1CM may not be the same. I don't even think zBrush has measurements. Poser is scaled very very small.

There's no way to clime in a app n check there 1CM with a real world ruler.

Anyways DAZ Poser Marvel DC all follow the Golden Main. head 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall ,body 8 heads tall. since a eye is 1 inch .All the characters are 4 feet 8 inches tall.

in Art we don't think in meters or inches ,we think in eyes.measure every thing with eyes.

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  ram1520    ( ) ( posted at 11:48AM Tue, 01 November 2016 · edited on 11:53AM Tue, 01 November 2016 · @4288493

RorrKonn posted at 8:30AM Tue, 01 November 2016 - #4287909

Every modeler has different measurements n XYZ's. So Max 1CM n a C4D 1CM may not be the same. I don't even think zBrush has measurements. Poser is scaled very very small.

There's no way to clime in a app n check there 1CM with a real world ruler.

Anyways DAZ Poser Marvel DC all follow the Golden Main. head 5 eyes wide 7 eyes tall ,body 8 heads tall. since a eye is 1 inch .All the characters are 4 feet 8 inches tall.

in Art we don't think in meters or inches ,we think in eyes.measure every thing with eyes.

Actually at 8ft, or even 8.6ft, the Poser's Numerical Unit (PNU) is Huge, compared to 1m or 1cm.

3DS Max and Maya are the property of AutoDesk, who is the creator of AutoCAD, one of the foremost Computer Aided Design softwares in the world. The same precision which goes into AutoCAD goes into 3DS Max. For People often take AutoCAD models into 3DS Max.

I hate to burst your bubble, but ZBrush, like most commercial 3D creations tools, uses 1m = 1 unit. Check out this video Real World Measurement in ZBrush

Why? that is simple, people to the hard edge work in 3DS Max and then bring their model over to ZBrush to do the soft body refinement, then the bring it back into 3DS Max, to do the shader and finish work; all while maintaining 1Unit to 1meter scale; so no one has to think about the conversion because there is no conversion.

Here are the Scales for a few other programs:

1 unit = 1 cm DAZ|Studio, Maya

1 unit = 10 cm Silo, Hexagon (Daz 3D says it is 1cm but it is actually 10cm or 1dm(decimeter) )

1 unit = 50 cm Blender

1 unit = 1 metre Cinema 4D, Lightwave, 3DStudio Max, Mirai, Modo, ZBrush

1 unit = 8 ft Bryce, Poser

Now looking at the list you can see why most major Game Engines like Unity, UnReal, and several others use the scale of 1 unit = 1m, for the same reason ZBrush uses it, so the Prop, Environment and character designers don't have to worry or think about changing scale. It is even easy from Hexagon, Maya, or Silo.

The reason the Gaming industry have Standardized on 1unit = 1m is simple, it is so if I buy an asset from Job Modeler I know I don't have to spend time futzing with it to get it to look right in my Scene, Game, Movie, What have you.

Any before you say the Scale of the Model doesn't matter, I will tell you it matters a Lot. Go watch Zootopia and all the additional materials, and see just how much Pixar worried about Scale when making that bit of Animated Fluff. I will also remind you of Perspective, Vanishing Point and all those other things from Basic Art Classes. Unless your are Escher, Willy Wonka, Salvador Dalí, Or Alice with her Magic Looking Glass; Scale Matters!

Here are two more images for you. One is a Wireframe of V4 in Hexagon where I modeled the door. Door and V4 in Hexagon.JPG

This second one is of the two Props I made in Daz Studio. Again the door on the right was imported in to poser using the 8.6' scale and the door on the Left the 8' Scale. Because it is a Prop, there is no conversion done (or not one that I can modify.) As you can see the Door's Size in relation to V4 is the same in all the pictures, I have posted.

Door and V4 in DazStudio.JPG

So here is my thought. Poser's Scale is 8' = PNU, it is the Dials that have changed.

Want more proof and never leaving Poser?

Using 8' to the PNU, Miki 2 is 159cm or 5'2", the average height of a Asian Woman according to All Nations.

If you use 8.6' she is 169cm or 5'6", which is very tall for a Asian woman but the average Height of a woman in the Netherlands according to Average Human Heights, who are some of the tallest women on the planet. Want the shortest women go to Bolivia where the average woman is only 4'8".


  ram1520    ( ) ( posted at 3:34PM Tue, 01 November 2016  · @4288517

ram1520 posted at 1:29PM Tue, 01 November 2016 - #4288493

This second one is of the two Props I made in Daz Studio. Again the door on the right was imported in to poser using the 8.6' scale and the door on the Left the 8' Scale. Because it is a Prop, there is no conversion done (or not one that I can modify.) As you can see the Door's Size in relation to V4 is the same in all the pictures, I have posted.

OOPS! I meant the for on the Left was in the 8.6' Scale and the door on the Right was in 8' scale. (Dyslexia Strikes Again!)

Why? that is simple, people to the hard edge work in 3DS Max and then bring their model over to ZBrush to do the soft body refinement, then the bring it back into 3DS Max, to do the shader and finish work; all while maintaining 1Unit to 1meter scale; so no one has to think about the conversion because there is no conversion.

Also I do realize people start projects in ZBrush and import them into 3DS Max and Maya, as well as others including Poser and Daz Studio.

This is what I get for writing Forum Posts oh dark thirty in the morning.


  RorrKonn    ( ) ( posted at 2:43AM Wed, 02 November 2016  · @4288551

ram1520 I'm not disagreeing with any thing you said. but You completely missed the point . any program no mater what measurements or scale they use and they can say a eye is 1cm or 100 cm .does not mater what they say cause at the end of the day a eye is one inch.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


  RorrKonn    ( ) ( posted at 2:48AM Wed, 02 November 2016  · @4288558

I model characters in C4D in C4D my characters scale eyes read 200 meters. C4D scales are the largest I've seen. I load the characters in Poser at 3%

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


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