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Subject: [WIP]: Male head with modeling steps


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 12:38 PM · edited Thu, 21 March 2024 at 11:46 AM

file_410743.jpg

It's been a long long time since I really finished anything. I started with all kind of stuff but after some hours of messing around in Cinema I lost interest. Now I have some time again and really want to complete a couple of projects. This head for example started in December 2007 :) Today I redid the UVs. Now I hope I will get the textures done before christmas. Chances are good...

I'm waiting for your moral backup

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 12:41 PM

file_410744.jpg

And here are the brand-new uvs :)

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


virtuallyhistorical ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 12:48 PM

 Looking good Patrick. Love your work so you better get this done... and before Christmas please!

Mak

www.makwilson.co.uk


cartesius ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 12:59 PM

Looking really good so far!

/Anders


Gallery | Store | dogday-design.se

 

 


tantarus ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 1:32 PM

Great work :)

Tihomir




Open your mind and share the knowledge!


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 2:16 PM · edited Mon, 28 July 2008 at 2:18 PM

file_410748.jpg

Thank you!

Removing the shadows and specular from the textures is really an art in itself! And so time-consuming. Here are some previous tries, they all failed miserable. It is so much easier with dark skin colors.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 2:59 PM

Very well done and considered.  Having proper frontal and side shots is critical when using a reference.  And then modeling with loops is perfect.  UV mapping and creating textures based off of the mapping - what fun! ;)

Can't wait to see the finished product!

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 28 July 2008 at 4:39 PM

Topology looks pretty good to me, I'm curious to see a higher rez image of the control cage (working on learning character topology myself right now).

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Locobox ( ) posted Wed, 30 July 2008 at 10:26 AM

Interesting modelling & texture work!
:)

Hope to see it finished!

 


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 30 July 2008 at 4:21 PM · edited Wed, 30 July 2008 at 4:23 PM

file_410853.jpg

Chances are good this guy will get his textures finished before christmas. Here is some progress. I still need to do a better job blending the textures together.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 30 July 2008 at 4:23 PM

file_410854.jpg

And this is the lowest resolution of the mesh.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


cartesius ( ) posted Wed, 30 July 2008 at 6:31 PM

file_410855.jpg

Looks like a very clean mesh! The only thing sticking out is that pole you have under his chin in side view. Would it be possible to retopologize it like in the attached image?

/Anders


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petz_e ( ) posted Thu, 31 July 2008 at 5:10 AM

Yes, I noticed this too yesterday when I uploaded the images. It seams that ZBrush inserted a few additional edges here and there. The area around the ears is a bit of a mess too, but that is my fault this time :)

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


pjz99 ( ) posted Thu, 31 July 2008 at 12:41 PM · edited Thu, 31 July 2008 at 12:42 PM

I see a few triangles also, those are OK?  Don't know if you are working with the "all quads" constraint.  Edge looping looks great to me.  The structure of the ears is really nice also.

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petz_e ( ) posted Thu, 31 July 2008 at 12:53 PM

Lol, ears are like hands. I made them one time and I now patch them into every model. That's why there are so many triangles around the ears. I would love to say that the head is modeled with quads only, but that's not the case. Triangles are not a problem if you know where to put them (the ear is a very good place to 'hide' them). N-Gons on the other hand are a problem, at least for ZBrush.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 13 August 2008 at 11:38 AM · edited Wed, 13 August 2008 at 11:40 AM

file_411698.jpg

Here I had a little fun in ZBrush. I exaggerated the details a bit since I'm not sure how good the displacement map will be picked up in Cinema.

For now I only worked on the mouth and chin part of the model.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


tantarus ( ) posted Wed, 13 August 2008 at 12:39 PM

Fantastic work :)

Tihomir




Open your mind and share the knowledge!


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 10 September 2008 at 11:37 AM

file_413646.jpg

Hi,

I modeled a t-shirt and textured it. Maybe the head/shirt proportions are off or maybe it is a ZBrush thing. I still have to check it in Cinema. Now I need to model a quick piece of an arm, not doing a lower body...

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


pjz99 ( ) posted Wed, 10 September 2008 at 1:14 PM

The head does look a bit large for the torso and shoulders, yeah.  Very nice T-shirt model though!

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Becco_UK ( ) posted Wed, 10 September 2008 at 2:54 PM

Nice modelling. Apropriate sized triangles cause no more problems than inappropriate sized quad polygons so I've never understood the preoccupation with all quad polgon meshes. All quads end up as triangles in the render engine!


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 10 September 2008 at 7:04 PM · edited Wed, 10 September 2008 at 7:04 PM

Quote - Nice modelling. Apropriate sized triangles cause no more problems than inappropriate sized quad polygons so I've never understood the preoccupation with all quad polgon meshes. All quads end up as triangles in the render engine!

I guess it would have been to easy if we could model everything in triangles and besides, where would be the fun :)

HyperNurbs although works best with quads and I think ZBrush uses the same algorithm when subdividing a mesh.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


pjz99 ( ) posted Thu, 11 September 2008 at 4:02 AM

I'm working on a head model myself, and I screwed up the topology at the corner of the jaw - it was a little too far forward of the ear and I needed to move it 1 loop towards the back - and you know, that was really damn hard to fix!  I had to beat on it for several hours before I figured it out.  I expected this to be hard, but this is harder than I dreamed!  Keep at it Patrick :)

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petz_e ( ) posted Tue, 23 September 2008 at 7:56 PM

file_414417.jpg

I finally pulled myself together and worked on the face details.

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


petz_e ( ) posted Tue, 23 September 2008 at 7:57 PM · edited Tue, 23 September 2008 at 8:00 PM

file_414418.jpg

EDIT: Does this image look oversaturated on your monitors? Looks fine on my notebook (normal skin tone) but on the desktop it looks way too reddish-orange.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


pjz99 ( ) posted Tue, 23 September 2008 at 8:10 PM

It does look pretty strongly red to me, and also there seems to be some strange stuff going on around the side and base of the nose and nostril opening.  There's a heavy dark spot on the front side of the ear as well.  Looks great overall though.

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Becco_UK ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 1:38 AM · edited Wed, 24 September 2008 at 1:39 AM

Nice work. Yes it does seem over saturated. Are the textures around the shoulders a bit stretched - not important though if you intend to cloth them with something in keeping with the characters rugged theme.  I think a nice plain subsurface scattering material would also look effective.


FarawayPictures ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 2:03 AM

Very good work. Can't you give him a plaster though...it looks like he cut himself shaving.

PORTAL


tantarus ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 2:47 AM

Over saturated on my monitor too :)

Tihomir




Open your mind and share the knowledge!


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 4:42 AM

pjz99: Ears and nostrils are tricky parts to uvmap and to texture. I still have to fix these issues.
Becco: Yes, the shoulder area is heavily stretched to keep the uvmap rectangular. But that's no problem, as it will be covered with the shirt.

There is a nice skin thread going on at cgTalk about how difficult it is to render good skin in Cinema (Title: "Skin, I wanna see some skin") Someone posted a solution which uses Sketch&Toon to get that red terminator in human skin. I might try this approach, but right now, all these "renders" are comming from zBrush.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


Becco_UK ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:03 AM

A checked work type shirt? I don't know much about Cinemas' sub surface scattering (SSS) but if it's a true volumetric SSS then you should be able to get a good skin (for a single layer mesh that is). I hope you be able to avoid the candle wax or flower coated look though!


Becco_UK ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:13 AM · edited Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:14 AM

Some time ago Gongyla started a 'Cinema Skin' thread right here at Renderosity  that may be worth a read (perhaps the CGForum crowd should read this!) http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2654918&page=1


petz_e ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:29 AM · edited Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:33 AM

I have to admit. I'm no fan of the Cinema build-in SSS shader. It it too difficult to set it up and to balance the parameters. A slight change of the size of the model and you have to restart (this is also the case in other application, but they have a scale factor and more intuitive parameters). From my experience it is impossible to get good, realistic looking skin with Cinema SSS.

It is ironic but Blender has a far more powerful SSS solution than Cinema. http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-244/subsurface-scattering/

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


tantarus ( ) posted Wed, 24 September 2008 at 5:33 AM

file_414438.jpg

Projection painting is not working for ears and nose ?

Use Shrink Wrapping in Interactive mapping for Neck and shoulder area, then just bang Relax "Pin to neighbors" once and that should give you nice UVs :)

Seam in between neck and head should not be a prob. to hide with projection mapping :)

Tihomir




Open your mind and share the knowledge!


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 3:31 PM

file_415030.jpg

This is one of the last updates, the project is very close to being finished. I don't know how many days I spent now in ZBrush and to be honest I don't know if I'm still making a progress. The details I'm working on are so small that nobody will notice them anyway. And the zBrush file is over 300MB heavy and almost unworkable (I have to have all objects in one scene to adjust the final pose, an undo takes over 2 minutes).

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


cartesius ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 4:00 PM

It looks very, very good!

Are you planning to keep the details as geometry or will you use displacement/bump mapping?

/Anders


Gallery | Store | dogday-design.se

 

 


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 4:36 PM

Quote - Are you planning to keep the details as geometry or will you use displacement/bump mapping?

The head and shirt have each about 3.2 million polygones. I think I will export displacement map for the overall shape but use a bump map for the pores and skin detail.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


Becco_UK ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 4:55 PM

Lovely work - all that detail would be noticable if it wasn't there. I haven't used ZBrush 3.1 properly but does it export normal maps - if so those would give you a better final render.


petz_e ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 5:44 PM

Quote - I haven't used ZBrush 3.1 properly but does it export normal maps

Yes, with ZMapper. A tool I haven't used yet.

Patrick

www.patrickeischen.com

"Someday, you'll be cool!"


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 6:56 PM

You may already be aware of this, but neither bump mapping nor normal mapping will alter the profile of the geometry at all when rendering, both of them are strictly a shading effect.  If you have sufficient detail that you need something like a mole or wart that you want to be visible in profile, e.g. when it's right on the horizon of the model, then desplacemant mapping is the way to go since it will actually create geometry - this comes into play when you need accurate shadows also, although I don't expect that matters for your project here.

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Becco_UK ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 7:05 PM · edited Mon, 06 October 2008 at 7:06 PM

pjz99: I meant normal maps for the fine detail. Much better than bump maps at render time and very much more system friendly than using displacement for everything. As you say displacement for profile changes and normal maps for fine stuff such as skin pores. Such fine detail is not suitable for sub polygon displacement unless the mesh has been designed for it ie: uniform sized polygons.


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 06 October 2008 at 11:10 PM

Displacement mapping doesn't have anything to do with the size or shape of the polygons in my experience, it really only depends on the accuracy of the UVmap.  If the UVmap is accurate, then the displacement map will be accurate.  I'm not really trying to sell the concept here, although imo it can add a very nice subtle element of realism for character portraits, breaking up the edges of a model and keeping the horizons from being infinitely smooth and perfect.

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Becco_UK ( ) posted Tue, 07 October 2008 at 2:04 AM

pjz99: I agree displacement maps work good on figures for the detail that is altering geometry such as viens, skin wrinkles etc.

Displacement for fine detail such as skin pores has everything to do with polygons. The best sub polygon displacement is achieved with polygons of the same size (or at least roughly the same size). This is where bump/ normal maps come into play - great results for fine detail with the least impact on system resources.

Unless Cinema's sub polygon displacement has improved since my 9.6 version, the level of subdivision required for creating skin pores would result in petz_es' fine model generating 'out of memory' errors.


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