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Poser F.A.Q (Updated: 2016 Nov 29 4:50 pm)


 Subject: Need Help Plz (P6 Fuzzy Materials)

Neyjour opened this issue on Dec 01, 2006 · 23 posts

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  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 9:38PM Fri, 01 December 2006 

I'm making a little freebie pack of fuzzy materials for P6, but I've run into this problem of holes in the fabric.  Here I've got the displacement set at 0.015 ... increasing that makes the holes bigger, a lower setting and the material looses the fuzzy effect that I want.  Is there any way to get around this?

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 9:41PM Fri, 01 December 2006  · @2840553


Grrr!  Image wouldn't attach...too large.  Trying again.

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  Gareee    ( ) ( posted at 9:59PM Fri, 01 December 2006  · @2840558

Are these 100% procedural, or are you using a dsiplacement map?

If you are using a displacementmap, anything darker then mid color will displace IN, and if it goes in too far, you'll see poke-though or a hole.

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 10:14PM Fri, 01 December 2006  · @2840561


Ummm...I'm not sure about what the difference is between procedural and displacement map.  Here's a screenshot of my settings.

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  lkendall    ( ) ( posted at 10:37PM Fri, 01 December 2006  · @2840570

**12/1/06

Gareee:

I believe that displacement maps can lower as well as raise the surface of an object. This displacement of the surface is controled by the shade of the map attached to the displacement channel. If the fabric of the clothing was lowered below the surface of the model/figure, then the skin if the model would show above the fabric of the cloth. Is that about right?

LMK**

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.


  raven    ( ) ( posted at 1:43PM Sat, 02 December 2006  · @2840942

Attached Link: maths node for positive & negative diplacement

To get Poser to use mid grey as the base so that black indents and white raises, you have to add a maths node to the displacement channel.
The linked thread shows what I mean.



  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 2:16PM Sat, 02 December 2006  · @2840949


Drat! Raven got there 1st (whilst I was away checking that things hadn't changed in P6, and setting up some images to show the way that displacement works..)

However, 'cos I'm egotistic and hate to waste time, I'll post what I saved anyway...:-))

The above is a very simple set-up, seen in the pose room. Just a (green) cube and a one-sided square, offset very slightly from the cube.



  lkendall    ( ) ( posted at 2:17PM Sat, 02 December 2006 · edited on 2:21PM Sat, 02 December 2006 · @2840951

12/2/06

Raven:

Thanks! That thread was very helpful. With Nodes and Channels Poser is so very versatile.

Diolma:

Post! Post! Some of the denser of us need all the illustration we can get!

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.


  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 2:20PM Sat, 02 December 2006  · @2840952


And here is the square, tiled, as seen in the materials room.
Note that only grey-scale is used for the displacement - black-mid-grey-white.



  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 2:25PM Sat, 02 December 2006  · @2840955


And the rendered result.
This shows that black is the base-line, any other values displace "outwards".
Displacement also takes negative values, but since grey-scale ranges between 0-255 (in 8-bit mode), grey-scale can't do -ve displacement without (eg) subtracting the grey-scale from 0.5, using a math node....



  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 2:36PM Sat, 02 December 2006  · @2840963

To get back to the original question...
Neyjour, on looking as closely as I can at your pic, is the material intersecting the body around the neckline? 'Cos if so, that's the cause of the holes...

It looks like it is, no doubt as an attempt to add the illusion of "thickness" to the material.

The trouble is displacement only moves the surface geometry. it doesn't compensate for edges ..
I can't think of a quick'n'easy solution just now, but hope that what I've posted gives you some insight into the actual problem...

Cheers,
Diolma



  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 4:28AM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2841963


Thanks for trying to help everyone, but I'm totally confused.  That all went right over my head.  :(

Diolma, as far as I can tell, the material isn't intersecting at the neckline.  Going to try and attach a larger image.  crosses fingers  The holes are mainly over the left (our left) boob and arm.  With a dark skin texture, it doesn't show up too much, but is very noticeable with a lighter one.

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 5:53AM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2841994


Ah well, it looks fine from a bit of a distance.  I'll just put a note in the ReadMe that it's not recommended for close-ups.  :P

Thanks again everyone!  I really do appreciate you trying to help, even though I couldn't get it.  :)

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  lululee    ( ) ( posted at 8:08AM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842040

this is some great info from everyone. I appreciate it. Thanks diolma for posting those images. Neyjour, your fabric is awesome.
cheerio  lululee


  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 8:10AM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842042

Thanks lululee.  😄

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 2:01PM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842292


Hi, Neyjour.

I hope you don't mind me taking liberties with your pic...

I'd like to try to help, but 1st we need to narrow down exactly what the problem is, then it becomes easier to suggest solutions.
In my doctored pic, the area outlined in red is the area I think you're having problems with.
The area outlined in yellow is another possible area, but I don't think you're referring to that (that looks more like a lighting artefact).

What I think is happening is that the cloth near the neckline bends towards the figure, to give the illusion of thickness (the area highlighted in green is what makes me think this).

If what I have stated above is correct, then the effect you are seing is exactly what one would expect.
Displacement works right-angles from each face in the mesh (along the "normal"). You can see this happening where the cloth bends over the shoulder - there are low and high parts showing up, giving the "fuzzy" texture you want to get.
Unfortunately, the same effect is happening along the neckline (and for the same reason).
If all the above is true, then there is no quick'n'simple answer that I know of.

The most obvious answer would be to create a separate material zone along the neckline (as a hem) and apply bump to it, instead of displacement..

Are you working on your own mesh or on something created by someone else?
Is it dynamic or conforming cloth? (I suspect conforming).
Since you want to create a texture pack, I suspect that it's not your own mesh, so using the grouping tool to create a hem isn't a solution.
Do you have existing texture maps (IE .jpg images that can be applied to the clothing)?
If so, you could create a hem on the texture map (as a greyscale image) and use it to create a cross-over from the displacement to the bump.

The technique is not difficult to do, but difficult to describe in words. I'm not going to go into details here yet, since it presumes that all be assumptions above are correct...

Cheers,
Diolma



  Neyjour    ( ) ( posted at 2:26PM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842316

The yellow circle is what I was talking about!  The neckline is fine...and like you said, that's what it should look like with a fuzzy fabric.  Sorry for all the confusion...I should have tried to post a better pic.  :(

Anyway, yes, there are tons of little tiny holes all through the 'fabric'.  It looks like white bits of fluff in my pic, but it's actually the skin showing through.  It's like the displacement is causing the clothing mesh to tear apart in little bitty pieces?  Hope I'm explaining this right...I know nothing about any of this!  I also noticed that it only seems to do this with the darker coloured materials...the dark blue, the red, etc., and it's really bad with the black.  Of course, it might be happening with all of them but it's only noticeable with the darker ones.

I'm not using any kind of texture maps for these.  They're all done right in the material room.  And I'm using other people's clothes (conforming) to test them out.  I want whoever downloads them to be able to apply them to whatever they want.

"You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free." - Steppenwolf

  diolma    ( ) ( posted at 3:17PM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842357

Hmm....
That shouldn't happen.

May I suggest you try an experiment?

Clear the figure's textures in the relevant area (so there's no skin texture), then colour her a very bright red in diffuse only (set everything else to black/0).
Do the same again, except using bright yellow instead of red.
Do NOT change the lighting or anything else - I'm very curious about this 'cos as I said, it shouldn't happen.

Post the results. We'll take it from there:-)

(Afterthought - I'm not sure you should be worried about it anyway. OK, so it works slightly differently on different figure textures - but who's going to know? I didn't.. I thought it was a lighting effect..)
Errm.. What type of lighting set-up are you using anyway?

(Diolma is retiring for tonight - be back tomorrow)

Cheers,
Diolma



  Angelouscuitry    ( ) ( posted at 7:17PM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842567

Attached Link: Matmatic fur

Matmatic a free beta program that you can use to write materials with, or decode the materials of several other authors with.  It takes an install, and the run of two scripts, but does not require the understanding of the language to use.

Here is bagginsbill's Fur script/thread.

Searching around here, and RDNA will turn up at least a dozen other scripts, if anyone wants the list that bagginsbill gave me, just IM!


  lululee    ( ) ( posted at 8:09PM Mon, 04 December 2006  · @2842590

Matamatic looks great. I'd love to have the list of the scripts Angelouscuitry.
cheerio  lululee


  JohnRickardJR    ( ) ( posted at 8:57AM Tue, 05 December 2006  · @2842954

What render settings were you using? I've just had a play with this, and I get the same result when the settings are too low - noise used as displacement can cause problems 

Try increasing your pixel samples, and lowering the min shading rate - the problem seems to disappear with a min shading rate of under about 0.5 for me.


  jewell    ( ) ( posted at 7:55PM Mon, 23 July 2007  · @3034033

actually, I think the 'holes' make the sweater look more realistic. Most fuzzy sweaters have 'holes' where they are knitted together. cool material. have to go look it up now...


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