okay, while there probably are improvements in Carrara, in the rendering and shader ops ect, there are also major drawbacks and losses with it. this is my opinion, and will post three screenshots with the important points highlighted.

now, I know that people say the new goopey buttoned interface is more intuitive, for myself, it is less useful. the high end modelling apps ( 3D Studio max, Rhino ) both use a four pane, interface, with no big goopey buttons anywhere in them. serious modelling requires the precision lost with the "intuitive" interface. the switch to a "poser like, intuitive interface" will guaraantee that I will not use carrara for any serious modelling....probably not use it at all. this is just my own opinion, but when the 3 to 7 thousand dollar mdelling apps use the type of interface that I'm saying gives more control, then there might be some validity in my opinion.

You make a very good point. One reason why I haven't made the move to Carrara - another being dead broke (wonder if I can still find a cheap RDS5.5 upgrade somewhere?). While the interface looks 'clean' it does resemble something more suitable for multimedia software for kids. Can you even bring up a properties, browser or hierarchy window at the same time?

nope, one at a time only with carrara. whole screen or minimised only. limits the options.

would actually get autocad, but don't have the 11000 Cdn they want for it right now. have to make do with the older version I have.

I don't think you have used Carrara very much. All the thing you highlighted in the first shot are moveable. The camera controls you talk about are merely for the working window, you have complete professional control of the camera output in the render room.The dockers on the sides and bottom can be opened as much or little as you like and give you access to all the timelines, browsers and properties just like Raydream, all at the same time. In the right docker all the tools are there for precise numerical and slider control of all the tools. Having separate rooms for modeling, etc. lets you work on your object unencumbered by the rest of the scene. The modeling tools work even better than in Raydream and are easier to use. I haven't even talked about C2 coming out, the global illumination is amazing. You also have the choice to use 1,2,3 or 4 pane view. I would spend some more time with the manual as you seem to have missed out on most of the program.

I agree, it seems like you can't get passed the changes that Carrara brings to make things easier. The UI is so customizable from colors to position of toolbars. You can move things anywhere. And the different rooms are not a short coming, but in much the same way that Maya uses different 'rooms' or sections each with there own menus and commands, C does something similar only much more intuitive. Try right clicking in the working box. Wow you have a lot of control from there that RD does not offer. Most people do not like change. But change is a way of life, and in this industry you either except change and adapt or never change and miss out on all the exciting breakthroughs that happen with it. Don't take this the wrong way, I have a lot of fond memories of RD as I started my adventures in 3D with RD 4, and later 5. I owe all my (rather limited) experience in 3D terminology and education to RD. But Carrara is RD on Steroids, and that is the future. Carrara still has a similar feel to RD and many things are taken from it. At the same time C does many things that are not possible in RD. I have not gone back since I upgraded, no need at all. RD is dead, Long live RD (in Carrara) ;-) -Paul

I agree with both Patrick and Paul- alternatives exist within the program that already address most of your complaints (and I haven't used Carrara much either). Some people do like all controls available at once. Nonetheless, there is some merit in showing only those tools available for the immediate task at hand. Moving between the various workspaces is relatively quick and easy. But, perhaps more to the point, Carrara is not 3D Max, Maya, Rhino or whatever. Frankly, if those are the programs you prefer those are the ones you should use. A stated goal behind Carrara is to make 3D modeling more accessible to digital artists whos' experience and workflow has been shaped by the more traditional programs such as Photoshop, etc. The intent is to make a transition to 3D somewhat less painful and more rapid than it might be by using the more "technical" approach adopted by other modelers. One of Carrara's advantages is simply its' price- still very low despite the price drops we are seeing in the industry. I don't think Carrara was intended to be the ultimate in 3D packages. It is supposed to bring 3D potential to digital artists who might otherwise forgo the experience. Nonetheless Carrara is surprisingly powerful. Certainly its' potential far exceeds my current skills. Perhaps this is not enough to meet your needs. But it is enough to fulfill the needs of many. Eovia is not seeking the 3D Max market (though I am certain they wouldn't mind sharing it...)

I would also like to re-emphasize that all object locations, object orientations, and object dimensions as well as scaling can be modified at the numerical level with keys (this would naturally include cameras). Most of my modeling and framing of scenes is done very precisely. I rarely ever use the "goopey" buttons (actually until very recently, I never used them, they weren't in RD and I didn't know how to use them.). The one BIG thing in C I noticed right away for modeling and framing of scenes which was a MAJOR improvement was the capability to zoom basically as far as you want. RD was limited. I think pretty much all of the things which have been considered as short comings for C in this thread aren't actually true and C has overcome RD for flexibility and useability. -Kix

ahhh you all are having a problem i had.... till i got a second monitor!!! all the palettes in carrara ARE MOVABLE/Brakeaway..... (drag and hold option key on the mac... not sure on a PC) i do wish you could RESHAPE them so they are more stackable... but it is better than having them all right ontop of the image you are working on.... A second monitor isn't expensive these days... you can get older vid cards with out a lot of biult in ram cheap... and a small monitor is fine for the "pallete monitor".... I'll post a screen shot later....

Hey Thomllama, You beet me to the punch... What do you mean about resizing? "i do wish you could RESHAPE them so they are more stackable" - there is a little simitransparent circle down at the bottom right of each pane, just put it where ever and resize. You can also do that even if you don't detach the pane. :) Kryoclasm

rad?? that is red.... and it's the command key... earlier i mis stated that it was the option key hey Kryoclasm.... how the hell did you get the items menu/pallete to move... everytime i try it just ends up selecting one of the items... (spline modeler... vertex modeler... etc) guess that oine should be circled in yellow? for those that started this whole thing... I have used(though just playing with) Lightwave... Maya.. Rhino... etc... the only program i have found i like better that carrara is Rhino... it just seems ... well to work better... get more real images... But it's NOT MAC!!!!! and why does that matter?? basicly both systems are the same these days... is a mac better than windows... not really... in anything but one area.... IMAGES!!! the PC's gamma setting make it so i just can't get the subtle lightings and color settings that i can with a mac... I'm sure it's just me ... but i have used both.. and my images come out a lot better on a mac.

~sighing~ you have missed my point. why should I have to spend hours reading manual and cutomising the ui to have the information at my findertips? why should I lose system resources by having dozens of 3d images loaded as controls, when those same 3d images are not accurate controls? show me a interface with no poser like controls.....can't huh? to bad. ~shutting M$ down and going back to coding my own modelling app for linux~

~sighing~ >you have missed my point. I'm not so sure. Most of your points were addressed by people here. If the need to read the manual (I'm not sure how this one is avoidable), wasted system resources and the existence of a "poser like" interface were your concerns you should have said so. By stretching the point one could say that these were implied but implications are far too vague to address properly. >show me a interface with no poser like controls.....can't huh? to bad. Nobody tried to nor is there any reason to have done so. People just answered your questions and I don't think anyone was trying to convince you to stay with Carrara. You should use the program that you are most comfortable with and it seems that carrara is not the one for you. That makes it useless for you. But that does not mean it is useless for everyone and I feel that it fulfills a certain set of needs quite well at a relatively inexpensive price point. I mean no insult and sincerely hope you find the program that fits you like a glove. The point is to model successfully and enjoyably. Face it, if we were all the same there would only be a need for a single program in any given category LOL!!! Good luck!

And one other thing, Jaqui, you get a cool modeler built up, you should advertise it and let people know. There might be lots of people who would find it useful. Probably some of the C users would fall into that category. Good comments jval. -Kix

when it's ready for beta testing it, and the source code, will be available on sourceforge. um, where does "big goopey buttons" not indicate poser like interface? specially when interface compared to apps that don't have poserlike interface? I have never said that C isn't a good app, just pointed out what I see as drawbacks. open source developing of applications allows other programmers to have input, for the joy of coding good apps. and yup, I know there are over 200 3d modelling apps for linux already on sourceforge.

i just don't get it... sooo you think that spending days/weeks years of time coding your own program is better than "spend hours reading manual and cutomising the ui to have the information at my findertips?" ok good for you... but if i spent like maybe 10 mins on the interface setting up... that's a lot!! and honestly... the BIG GOOFY Buttons are great while modeling, For a "quick" flyover or spin around view!! they are also MUCH faster to use if you get something placed close to where you want with them... then dial it in with direct, numaric manipulation. They can (and where for me also) a bit confusing when you first encounter them. but once you understand how they work... it makes life way easier!! and you can always type your numbers into the trans windows... is Carrara a "high end profesional program"? not quite... but damn close for something that isn't $2000!!!! wait... it's not even $1000..... oh wait it's not even $500 hmmm i think i'm getting WAY more than my money's worth...

oh and by the way... Carrara DOES run on linux....WELCOME TO MAC OSX!!!!!

Yes, Mac OSX support. If Eovia would have only added that and nothing else I still would have bought it. I wouldnt be as excited, but I cant wait to see how it runs under X. -Paul

I'll be damned if I can figure out what the point of this whole thread is other than "Carrara sucks", which is quite a pronouncement, especially considering most of your complaints about it were dead wrong. And if it did, most anyone here already owns it, so what's the point?

um, where does "big goopey buttons" not indicate poser like interface? As "big goopey buttons" lacks a certain precision I'm not quite sure what they are but I gathered this description was not intended to be complimentary. But "big goopey buttons" do not necessarily indicate "Poser"- they only indicate "big goopey buttons". (btw, Poser and Carrara may appear to have superficial similarities. But anyone who has made even minimal use of the two will soon discover that they are not at all alike. Buying Carrara solely on the basis it is Poser-like would be a serious error.) You are quite correct about open source applications. Indeed, one of my favourite modelers, Wings3D, is open source. (If I were comparing it to Max or Rhino I suppose I'd be complaining that Max/Rhino had far too many buttons... grin) But I can't see how this comment is the least bit relevant. While open source allows greater freedom of design, etc it also eliminates control of the product. Eovia is a commercial company reliant upon their products. For such entities losing control of their offerings is tantamount to suicide. As far as I can see what you are saying is that you don't like oranges because they are not pineapples. Fine. But as x2000 asks, what's the point? You state "facts" which are simply incorrect and then attempt to bolster them with non sequiturs. Maybe I am doing you a diservice but this is beginning to sound like a troll to me. I think I'm out of here.

I have to make a comment on this. Yes, carrara has big gooey buttons and that is a holdover from the old metacreations style of graphic interface. However, in Carrara, these buttons are there to make basic functions readily available and apparent. Some of the other apps you mentioned require that you go through some serious hoops to get to what you want, especially for basic operations. Not necessarily better, but more of a pain in some cases. I like carrara's interface since it the basic stuff is easy to get to and the more detail adjustments are only a couple clicks away. Developing a user interface that pleases everyone is nearly impossible. Jaqui, you may well create a good interface that suits you well, but there may well be others that don't like it, no matter how "open source" it is. 3d apps all have their own purpose and scope and they should be judged on their own merit. And at the bottom line, it is what best fits the artist that matters most, IMO. Anyway good luck on your app! I'd like to see it when its done. :)

thomllama. yup, based on Debian linux, optimised for risc processors and scsi hardware interface, and only one computer in the world fits those reqirements....mac. the mac os will no run properly on a pc platform, it is configured for the hardware unique to mac. proprietary hardware you know. why mac equipement isn't comatible with other computers. even ibm got away from that to get some market share back. only mac uses scsi interface, except for cdrw's, only mac uses risc processors, both actually very good hardware types, the risc processor beats the crap out of intel's, and scsi has a lot of great capabilities. the differences in hardware is why M$ doesn't run on mac. and mac os doesn't run on a pc. Dotpainter123, a round button floating in the screen with noting but an image isn't clear, unless you have used the program before, as to what it is for. but big round buttons are eating resources, that in my opinion is better used in the operation of the application. but then I do like the console of linux over ANY gui. frees resources to not have to load meg after meg of graphic interface, makes applications run much faster. ~g~ maybe make the app run in console..have to include a linux kernel then though. ~l~ All, very first post does state it is my opinon of the programs..but boy look how fast you jumped down my throat for not liking the interface alone. or the time needed to learn how to customise to get it to a more informative and usefull interface for me. 1) I need the multi views due to extremely poor vision, with no depth perception to speak of. 2) the trackball camera control is not a usefull control when the poor depth perception is there...I scroll around the object and it disappears..cause trackball says my straight line was a curve..though mouse pointer and physical guide on desk say otherwise. bad enough that I'll soon not be able to work visually, have to invest in braille display. interface that won't even accept a true straight line as straight isn't going to be usefull. 3) the speed at which people get defensive over the app tends to say it has major flaws, I don't recall posting anything that says it isn't a good app, only that I don't like the interface. a strong app can take some comparison without needing to be defended so strongly. now, besides the controls and the fact that I can't have all the information at my fingertips without loosing view of the image / model / scene, I actually like the quality of the operations performed by carrara. it definately beats ray dream for rendering, and texturing. the new windows for ops remove the scene from view, it may be a nice way to code the workspace, but for me it doesn't work. corel makes horrendous swap file ( 2GB ) but that is used to render r/t previews of the effects being applied, works better for me than whoel new window. ray dream doesn't give preview of effects very easily, not a good thing for my uses either. for camera controls, I would love to see a 360 degree circle with every 5 degrees marked on it....and an up down arrow set to increment by zero point one degrees, as well as a numerical entry box. much simpler to scroll to the view you need that way, no more than 2.5 degrees from perfect. click a switch and same track now affects the elevation, third setting the pitch, fourth the yaw. a lot easier to get exact position for me that way. I usually know to within .05 degrees where I want the camera. I can physically drop a post into concrete and have it within a single degree of perfectly verticle, done it hundred of times installing satelight dishes. pick and for dish and where to point it by eye...30 seconds for tuning it into srongest signal on satelite. why I got paid 300 to install one. about four hours total work. I'm too used to having to work with an error tolerance of zero.