Welcome to the Poser 12 - Feature Requests Forum

Forum Moderators: nerd, jennblake

(Last Updated: 2021 Nov 29 8:37 pm)

Would you like to tell the Poser 12 Development team something you would like to see added to Poser 12? Or a tool that already exist be improved upon? Tell us here!

PLEASE post a NEW thread for every item. Do not post on an on-going thread/conversation or your request will be missed!

Subject: Lifting Surface Brightness limit ??

NikKelly ( ) posted Fri, 08 October 2021 at 9:08 AM · edited Wed, 01 December 2021 at 12:02 AM

'Displacement' has a default limit which, if lifted, allows a lawn to sprout to 'Elephant Grass', or a map to become a towering volcanic caldera.

'Surface Brightness' seems to have a similar default limit.

Beyond a point, neither simple 'super ambience' nor complex 'emission' node seem able to get any brighter. And certainly not bright enough...

Yet Poser lights may be dialled unto 'arc-light'...

( I sorta remember how we'd craft custom lights and parent them within luminaires... )

Is there an equivalent way to lift limit for materials' surface brightness ?

parkdalegardener ( ) posted Fri, 08 October 2021 at 9:54 AM

What exactly do you mean by "Surface Brightness?" I was curious what you were talking about so I opened Poser and gave it a go. I simply used all three Poser Root Nodes to light the same mesh in a scene with no other lighting in the scene. PoserSurface, PhysicalSurface and CyclesSurface.  I could see no limit to the ability to crank up the light being emitted on any of them. The size of the surface casting light will make a difference. Two differently sized emission surfaces with the same shader on each will illuminate differently. Couldn't say for Firefly Renders though. I haven't done one since Superfly came along.

NikKelly ( ) posted Fri, 08 October 2021 at 2:53 PM · edited Fri, 08 October 2021 at 2:53 PM

"...with no other lighting in the scene."

Perhaps is different in P_12 but, in PPro_11, I've wound 'Emission Strength' up to 75k, I've tried a bunch of other things, yet none are bright enough to rival the default Poser lights...


parkdalegardener ( ) posted Fri, 08 October 2021 at 3:59 PM

This is P11. All 3 roots I tried worked fine.5uT3PVzG0TwUq7Z2sd7f2SW25RFOeQpn3Sabmn8D.jpg

parkdalegardener ( ) posted Fri, 08 October 2021 at 4:17 PM

At the risk of seeming simple; do you have enough transmission bounces in your render settings for the light to pass through the glass shade?

NikKelly ( ) posted Sat, 09 October 2021 at 9:02 AM

Aaagh !! Never considered that: I'll try this afternoon...

I had the scene as a PZ3 against crashes, so scant posing etc required.

Um, no, not helping...

FWIW, I can get luminaire panels etc from eg RM's RE2 ports bright enough to illuminate scenes, but only because their surface provides enough area for the accumulated 'surface brightness' to suffice. That limit again: Yet Poser lights can manage dazzling 'point sources', I wonder how...

After I've cleaned behind cooker, I'll have a play. Also a look at the 'LED' OBJ. I wonder if local subdivision would help or, conversely, hinder...

Thank you for taking an interest in this obscure issue: And, yes, I do have the nagging feeling I'm missing an 'effin obvious' switch or option !!

hborre ( ) posted Sat, 09 October 2021 at 10:30 AM

Subdivision won't improve the situation so don't even bother.

parkdalegardener ( ) posted Sat, 09 October 2021 at 12:01 PM

Agreed. Larger emitters will light a larger area at the same emission level as a small surface, but I haven't found subdividing the surface to help. I use the single poly one-sided square as a light source all the time.

NikKelly ( ) posted Sat, 09 October 2021 at 1:16 PM

"Subdivision won't improve the situation"

Logical: Won't improve 'surface brightness' limit...

Sorry, haven't had time to investigate, as moving cooker led to finding pin-hole leak in fill-pipe of adjacent dish-washer. Area is awash, will take several days to dry...

NikKelly ( ) posted Sun, 10 October 2021 at 11:56 AM · edited Sun, 10 October 2021 at 11:56 AM

Did some more research, tried a bunch of ideas, could not get beyond that intractable 'surface brightness' limit.

Went to 'Plan_B', more area. So, hauled model's OBJ into TurboCAD, trimmed it to just the four skinny 'LED Strips'. Carefully overlaid them with fatter hexagonal prisms. After saving WIP steps, deleted 'LED Strips' and saved the prisms as OBJ. Importing as % of figure was not going to work, so variously scaled as % of original. Hid lamp glass --Is double-layered-- and iterated hex prisms into place. Parented prisms to lamp. Un-hid lamp-glass to 95% transparency. Half-remembering comment elsewhere, and checking in manual, I set prisms to "Cast Shadows" OFF.

As 'Emission' goes no brighter than simply dialling 'Super Ambient', I reverted to 'SA' for both lamp LED strips and their hexagonal prism overlays. Latter have about 3~~4 times 'strips' area, so lamp is now about 'n+1' times brighter. Not brilliant, but much, much better. After a 64 pix-sample test-render (attached), I've sent a ¼ k pixel-sample to 'Box', just gone 50%...

I suppose next step is to overlay multiple concentric hex-prisms on each of these, doubling and re-doubling effective emission surface area ? I should be able to test that with Poser primitives... ;-)

I'll also have a look for Poser lights in run-time, hope to find some clue to how they by-pass 'surface brightness' limit... 


RedPhantom ( ) posted Sun, 10 October 2021 at 1:11 PM
Forum Moderator

Can you show us screenshots of your render settings, the glass shader, and the light shader? I was testing this and had no problem with getting it so much brighter than what you show here.

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parkdalegardener ( ) posted Sun, 10 October 2021 at 2:08 PM

I admit; I have no idea what the OP's problem is. I'll try this one last time and then without better info I'm out of here. The amount of light cast by a mesh object has nothing to do with the amount of polygons the mesh has. Subdivision will not change anything. Mesh light is completely dependent upon the size of your emitter. The mesh you are using for a light bulb is the emitter. The larger the size of the emitter, the lower the emission value required to obtain the same apparent brightness in scene lighting.

Your also need to take into account how many transmission bounces your light will need to escape the glass container and bounce off your subject and hit your camera. That is why Red asked about what type of glass and your render settings. Your images don't seem to have a glass shader that represents the double sided glass you say the shade is made from. If it does then you may need to crank up the transmission bounces in your render settings to get an acceptable image.

The image I placed in the other thread has a screaming high emission value on the mesh light because the sphere I used for the emitter is so small. Here I just dropped a default Gramps in beside the table to show some scale. See the small black ball inside the globe. That was the emitter in the other thread image and  was set to about 1000 if I recall correctly. Here we are lighting with the single polygon 1 sided square from Poser's props scaled up 50%.  Emission value of 2. Not bad andGRShcfqklW1VMqLor84lQ5AQKCi7PT9trHKmxP79.jpg it is every bit as bright as a studio light setup using Poser's traditional lights.

As a complete aside; are you looking to try and get a "Bloom" effect in your lighting? https://blog.dehancer.com/articles/bloom-what-it-is-and-how-it-works/

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