Welcome to the Poser 12 - Feature Requests Forum

Forum Moderators: nerd, jennblake

(Last Updated: 2021 Nov 29 8:37 pm)

Would you like to tell the Poser 12 Development team something you would like to see added to Poser 12? Or a tool that already exist be improved upon? Tell us here!


PLEASE post a NEW thread for every item. Do not post on an on-going thread/conversation or your request will be missed!


Subject: Material room simple / basic page ??


NikKelly ( ) posted Sun, 26 September 2021 at 7:27 PM · edited Tue, 30 November 2021 at 3:27 PM

I've just read in another thread that P_12 material room no longer has a simple / basic page.

I've been saving to upgrade my PP_11.3 to P_12 at next service release, preferably with much more tolerant FBX rig importing, but losing quick and easy access to Diffuse, Ambient, Transparency and Bump / Displacement mapping would be a disaster.

Put it as an option, put it on a tab perhaps, but, please, put it back.

IMHO, throwing unwary users straight into the layered arcana of 'Advanced' properties will not encourage them to use Poser beyond the trial month.


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 27 September 2021 at 10:08 AM

That is correct, the Simple tab is gone and replaced with the Assign tab that works very closely with the Material Category of the Library.  It can allow you to mix textures from other characters without hunting for them through the Texture Manager.  The only pitfall of this feature is that it only works with Material files, not MATPose files.  I can understand your concern about the Simple tab disappearing, a feature that I abandoned very quickly when I started Poser, but also understand that with the introduction of PBR and Cycles, that tab has reached its limit.  Older models are completely full of hacks that no longer render correctly in current versions of Poser, and newer models are sporting more efficiently constructed shaders that the Simple Tab could never handle.  The days of simply loading the stage with figures and props and rendering are most likely gone.  Users are becoming a little more sophisticated these days and want a little more out of the software.  To just pass off bad renders without putting the extensive work into it is just a disservice to the 3D artist.  


nerd ( ) posted Mon, 27 September 2021 at 10:58 AM · edited Mon, 27 September 2021 at 10:58 AM
Forum Moderator

This point is valid but there's a serious problem with the Simple room. If it's used to edit any existing material like for example LaFemme's base materials it will break them or just not do anything real. If you examine the skin for a stock LaFemme you'll see it uses a hybrid material. That is it has a different root shader for FireFly and SuperFly. It could even have a Cycles native material. The simple material tab could not represent those materials. In fact changing the material with the simple materials would seem to do nothing. It can't interact with multiple root nodes.

So, what happened is if the user changed the texture with the simple materials and nothing actually changed. That's a worse experience than having to learn shader nodes.  That's not very friendly. I tried many, many ways to represent a modern material in a simplified view. By the time it was capable of editing materials without breaking things or just not working it was at least as complicated as editing nodes if not more so. There's a reason practically everything uses node based materials.

When trying to figure out a way to make a simple material, the closest thing to working was to create two totally separate materials. The simple one and the "advanced" one. That would require and whole 'nother material room. Blender sort of does this. There's an option on each material to "use nodes". When unchecked it offers a simple material. But, it's diffuse only. So really simple and nobody uses that after the first day. The idea was maybe we can do something like that. No matter what we end up with really bad materials because one setup doesn't work for everything. What works for skin doesn't work for car paint and so on. That's why there are nodes in the first place. Real materials have different light properties.

So, the simple room has to go away. It never worked with anything but the simplest materials and it's the 21st century. If we want Poser to go forward we need to get past using 1990's materials. That doesn't mean it has to be difficult. I totally agree that on the surface is seems like adding texture maps is way more clicking around. And, it is if you use the menus to add each image map. There's a much better way.

The Poser Root Node has all the bits that were in the simple room and a lot more. The material room has some tricks that make working with nodes much easier. The most relevant is drag n' drop of textures from Explorer or Finder. If you drag and drop a supported image type onto the material editor it automatically creates a new image node. All you need to do is plug it in.

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If you drag and drop to an existing node it will replace the image, leaving the node connected. It also give you the option to replace the image maps for the entire figure or object in one action.

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The Assign tab allows you to copy materials from zone to zone and make mass changes to multiple zones in one action. For example this is for when you want to assign changes to all the skin zones on a figure,

Here's another neat trick. You can drag and drop multiple image maps. Select the Diffuse, Specular, Bump and any other map in Explorer or Finder and Drag the whole lot in one action. No needs to hunt down the files one by one.


NikKelly ( ) posted Mon, 27 September 2021 at 11:46 AM

"...and Drag the whole lot in one action. No needs to hunt down the files one by one."

Wow.

Does it also work for ambience maps ??

( Quick way to adapt set with texture-mapped luminaires + conduits etc rather than a correctly grouped glowy material for filament etc )


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