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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2021 Oct 17 1:45 am)


Subject: Dawn 2.0


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 02 September 2021 at 6:32 PM · edited Sun, 17 October 2021 at 12:15 AM

Yes, I know, Dawn 2.0 has been "coming soon" for months. But now there's a date, of sorts. Chris said:

We now have a Dawn 2 release candidate as of August 18th. We'll wait til Paul has the Poser conversion done before we open it up for content creators to make extra goodies for about 6 weeks before release.

So, maybe mid-October?


Miss B ( ) posted Thu, 02 September 2021 at 7:19 PM

I know, we've all been waiting with baited breath over at HiveWire forums to see her. Now it all depends on how long it takes Paul to get everything set up in Poser. Hopefully not too much longer.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 02 September 2021 at 7:53 PM

I hope the date doesn't slip too much, or my credit card will melt down, with the traditional Black Friday sales in November. ?


hborre ( ) posted Thu, 02 September 2021 at 9:24 PM

Oh goody!!!!


ghostship2 ( ) posted Fri, 03 September 2021 at 7:58 PM

someone had posted some renders on the old Smith Micro forum that looked incredible. I'm really looking forward to this figure.

W10, Ryzen 5 1600x, 16Gb,RTX2060Super+GTX980, PP11, 11.3.740


ssgbryan ( ) posted Sat, 04 September 2021 at 9:49 AM

Hopefully Chris has learned from the trainwreck that was the Dawn 1.0 launch.



thoennes ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 9:04 PM

trainwreck?

In any case, Poser is in a different place from that time. As is DS. As is the community.

A cross platform figure, SOA on both platforms.

Tasty :)


randym77 ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 9:24 PM

I don't know that I'd call it a train wreck, but I think it was a mistake not to have more support for Dawn from the beginning. Supposedly, they were working on the animals instead.

IMO, it really hurt the adoption of Dawn, that there was so little support for her. Particularly morphs. I remember at first, most of the Dawn characters looked alike because there weren't a lot of morphs for her face, and her face was so distinctive, with that long, pointed chin.

Dawn 2 does have a more generic face, from what I've seen.


Miss B ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 10:03 PM

randym77 posted at 9:59PM Mon, 06 September 2021 - #4426839

I don't know that I'd call it a train wreck, but I think it was a mistake not to have more support for Dawn from the beginning. Supposedly, they were working on the animals instead.

I wouldn't say "instead". I think they were "also" working on the animals, and Dusk, and Baby Luna. I always believed they wanted more than just one character in their marketplace, and they are a very small team, so each product took a long time to get out to the public.

As much as I would like Dawn 2 in my hands right now, I'm also inclined to wait, as experience with the HiveWire figures over the years has shown me the final product is worth the wait.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


randym77 ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 10:12 PM

They said they're giving vendors six weeks to make products for Dawn 2, which sounds promising.

But I also think they should have a bundle of official products, like DAZ does. A standard morph pack or two, and clothing basics (the ultra bodysuit, the fantasy dress, etc.). Relying on vendors to provide that stuff doesn't work as well, because people are less likely to buy it. Or there might be three different versions of the same item, from three different vendors. Having one "official" version makes it a lot easier for vendors and customers to support it.


Miss B ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 11:22 PM

True, though I think there will most likely be skin textures, poses, and I believe, though I'm not sure, morphs as well. I just don't know if they'll do "separate" morph packs. I also don't know if they'll be including a clothing pack too. I just know what I read on the forum as to who's doing clothing.

We're just going to have to wait and see, and I am hoping there will be more than just Dawn 2 herself. FingersCrossed.png

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


odf ( ) posted Mon, 06 September 2021 at 11:54 PM

It would be wonderful to finally see a well-made non-DAZ figure become successful in the Poser world.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


FVerbaas ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 9:55 AM
Forum Coordinator

I have my doubts, to be honest. Another figure with no doubt limited compatibility with existing figures (unless maybe current Dawn who is rig-wise pretty much an exception) is yet more dilution.

I have not heard of any features that would make her indispensable. Rig is still T-pose so just as (un)suitable to use with dynamic clothing as any existing Poser figure except Ali's Angels. Why do you think these popular G... figures went to an A pose when DForce was about to come? Why do you think the Gxx series were introduced with backward compatibility options?

I did put some cards on Paul/Pauline when she came out, made investments, only to see them trashed when Rendo took over and showed reluctant to even admit the figures exist, let alone provide tools to re-use content. ​I do not think they will give new Dawn any priority over or next to the Gaul figurehead couple.

**I sincerely hope that time will prove me wrong, though. **

Unless Dawn2 comes with uv alternative mapping and material definitions to seamlessly load textures made for some popular existing figures and on-the-fly conversions and refits of conformers I see no reason to invest in Dawn2. I will make a Dawn2 plugin for the Prefitter when requested, and, when MD fixes their support for Python in MD10, a Dawn2 base for the MDBridge.


Miss B ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 11:26 AM

FVerbaas posted at 11:20AM Tue, 07 September 2021 - #4426876

I have not heard of any features that would make her indispensable. Rig is still T-pose so just as (un)suitable to use with dynamic clothing as any existing Poser figure except Ali's Angels.

I work with dynamic clothing all the time on figures in the default T-pose, and have not had any issues in the Cloth Room with Poser versions 9 through 12.

Needless to say, the Cloth Room itself could use an overhaul, but changing the necessary default pose to an A-pose, isn't one I'd even consider, and yes, I tried playing in MD, but it was just too expensive for what I would use it for, so never got involved with it.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


Rhia474 ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 12:28 PM

Seconding Miss B for clarity: as an end user, dynamic clothing, when properly made, works just fine from TPosed figures with no issue in Poser 11 and 12.

I can't speak for creators, but look at how cleverly the updated dynamics system worked out in the Other Software, and people still think dynamics are the devil in Poser.


RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 12:56 PM
Forum Moderator

Having a default of a t-pose doesn't mean that is the pose you have to use for your dynamic clothing. I have seen dynamic clothing made to fit an a-pose for figures that have default t-pose. They just come with a pose file to start you out. It wouldn't be hard to create an a-pose in Poser and save it out quickly.

But like Miss B and Rhia, I use dynamics all the time and don't have issues with the armpits, except in final poses, and it doesn't matter what the starting pose was.

Let's not start disparaging a character before we can even try using it. We may have dome previews, but we don't know what the final product is until they release it.


Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 12 and win 10


parkdalegardener ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 2:36 PM

Dynamic clothing has always worked fine in "T" pose or any other pose you care to use. I have used it since it was included in Poser. Will it be updated? Not a snowball's chance. Size 8 licensed their simulation software to Poser. They are now gone into the either as far as I know so getting an update to the core is pretty unlikely. As for Rendo promoting Dawn? Why not? They promote lots of artists and their products. There will be native versions for each of the competing software platforms. Use the one that suits your platform needs. I personally see this as a bonus for dynamic/DForce garment creators. Same obj(s) and no software specific rigging required. iRay, Superfly, Cycles; all going to use the same textures maps for the cloth. Only difference will be scaling the obj(s) for each. Time for clothing designers to make a little scratch off customers on both sides of the debate. There are folks in this thread that already take the base obj cloth files from software to software to do dynamic/DForce cloth simulations. Remember vendors. One product, both softwares, no figure specific B.S. required. Go forth and cash in.



RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 4:33 PM
Forum Moderator

At the risk of derailing this thread even further, just because Size 8 is gone, doesn't mean the cloth room can't get an overhaul. They just won't be able to use the current code. There are plenty of programs out there that will drape an object like cloth which indicates it can be done without Size 8's code. It would take a lot of work, but it could be done.

I look forward to Dawn's release and seeing what she can do. Always happy to have another figure. I use so many. It's nice to have a variety of them.


Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 12 and win 10


randym77 ( ) posted Tue, 07 September 2021 at 5:07 PM · edited Tue, 07 September 2021 at 5:08 PM

I don't care for the A pose for dynamic clothing. If you're fitting the clothing to a different or highly morphed figure, the T-pose is a lot easier. The scaling is straightforward in the t-pose.

I'd rather see the hair room improved than the cloth room. The cloth room works pretty well. The hair room has some serious bugs.

I think Rosity will support Dawn 2. Dawn 1 is included free in Poser. They're clearly working together now.


FVerbaas ( ) posted Wed, 08 September 2021 at 9:21 AM · edited Wed, 08 September 2021 at 9:30 AM
Forum Coordinator

1 - It was not my intention to initiate a derailment discussing default poses and cloth room. I will happily launch a separate thread to explain my preference.

2 - I do not have high hopes about positive effects of dual platform. Even for props, where the only difference lies in shader definition, DAZ vendors hardly ever care to provide Poser definitions. 'You can export a Poser definition from DAZ'. Yeah, sure. For rigged items I do not expect better. Also compromises made for dual platform means less than optimal for any of the two platforms.

3 - A lot of items come free with Poser, but that does not mean Rendo is expected to make any efforts to promote or support them in the future. They are what they are. Cut off from both the marketplace and the freebie collection the probability that new users link them with supporting items is small. One other thing that DAZ does better. Content that comes with their app is just added to your account.

Please keep this thread focused on Dawn2. My above remarks pertain to how the situation affects the figure and its future. Any other topics better separate thread.


JoePublic ( ) posted Wed, 08 September 2021 at 12:54 PM · edited Wed, 08 September 2021 at 12:57 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity, profanity

Dawn I was one of the worst designed Poser figures I'Ve ever had the misfortune to work with. The default "looks" were frumpy, the mesh geometry was primitive (No built in muscle edgelloops, not enough "crotch density" to even sculpt rudimentary genitals.

The touted "works in both programs" selling point boiled down to the fact that she was rigged in DAZ Studio and then just auto- exported as a Poser figure without any special adjustments whatsoever to accomodate Poser's rigging peculiarities.

Meaning that she did bend poorly in Studio, but even worse in Poser.

I still wasted a couple hours to fix at least some of her major problems, but wasn't allowed to distribute the fixes: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2871446

Sooo.... No, I don't think I'm in danger of getting too exited anytime soon about the imminent release of another figure designed by the same creative team behind Dawn 1.

But, hey, whatever floats yer boat. If your hobby is spending money on just another "unsupportable" Poser mesh, more power to you. ;-)

Me, I rather spend my time trying to improve and maximize the useability of tried and true meshes I already have in my runtime.

Debbie-01.jpg

But enough of that. I don't want to derail this thread. Sorry that I can't be more positive about Dawn II, but really folks... Right after "Renda" and "Eve", "Dawn I" was probably the biggest failure this little corner of the 3D universe has ever seen. (Especially after the over-the-top hype we've been bombarded with.)

I admit I really was exited myself at the prospect of getting a new Poser figure by the designer who gave us the wonderfull Michael I/II (And Steph I) mesh.

But as they say...Fool me once... ;-)


RAMWolff ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 4:20 PM

I'm more looking forward to Dusk 2.0 so when Dawn 2 hits hopefully the momentum will continue and he will follow quickly since they are Unimesh and share ALMOST the same rigging.  While I like La'Femme and L'Homme I'm more of a HIVE person in the long run.  

---Wolff On The Prowl---


randym77 ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:59 PM

Chris said on Monday that the Poser version is almost done.

For awhile they were flirting with the idea of releasing Dawn 2 and Dusk 2 at the same time, but I think they've given up on that. Hopefully there won't be too long a delay between them, though.


Ken1171_Designs ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 12:08 AM

As opposed to the original Dawn, Dawn 2 was created with direct participation from the community and vendors, and that alone makes her something special. I have personally participated in every aspect of her design, from the geometry, topology, edge flow, grouping, skeleton, and rigging. This is a figure that has been redesigned from ground up based on 7 years experience over the first Dawn, where no stone was left unturned. Even her fingernails and toenails were redesigned, now being double-sided for better texturing, and detached for better morphing.

Her posing quality is miles better than Dawn1, even without JCMs added. That alone speaks for the quality of her new topology, grouping, and rigging refinement. When a figure can pose well without pose correction JCMs, that speaks for itself. A well designed figure only needs JCMs to do very little work on pose correction, and that's what we get with Dawn2. As opposed to LF, she can be sculpted at base resolution without requiring any subdivision. I made a few body morphs for her, and her topology made things fall into place where they needed to be. From first hand experience, I can attest that sculpting Dawn2 was easier and better than it was with Dawn1. 

Like mentioned above, Dawn2 has a more generic default face, free of the strong features we had with the original Dawn. This makes it easier to create character morphs for her that have a unique shape, distinct and original. This part was suggested by 3DUniverse, who is known for making some of the most unique character morphs in this market. That's the advantage of listening to the community and vendors when designing the figure, so it becomes what they need it to be. 

One of my favorite change was the addition of the metatarsal bone on the feet. This allows for a more organic and natural feet posing that was not possible with the original Dawn. This was one of my personal requests, and to make this more vendor friendly, this is a ghost bone, meaning it doesn't require a dedicated extra group on the feet. In other words, this makes the feet more posable, but has zero impact when making shoes for Dawn2, which is good for both users and vendors. That's the kind of attention this figure's design has. 

Another of my personal requests was the addition of the new pectoral bones, which were missing in Dawn1. This can cut down on the amount of extra breast posing morphs we had to deal with the original Dawn. Posing with bones is not only faster, but also more intuitive. In addition, Dawn2 will be Hivewire3D's very first figure to ship with a facial rig, which is a big improvement over the original Dawn.

Having that said, any comparisons with the original Dawn would be rather pointless, because Dawn2 was completely redesigned from ground up. A lot was learned from 7 years of real world experience from Dawn1, where the idea was to learn from the mistakes, and make this a much better base to work with for both users and vendors. 


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 7:16 AM

Thanks for the insight, Ken! Sounds promising. 

I do hope they release her with a clothing bundle. I think that goes a long way toward building support. Having an "official" imprimatur makes it more likely vendors and freebie makers will support it. DAZ's bodysuit isn't the best one available, but it's the one everyone uses. The one you need if you want to make V4 into a superhero or Star Trek officer or gaming character.


Miss B ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 9:29 AM

I believe they'll be including a character skin set, and a set of base poses, but not sure if they (HW3D) will be including any clothing sets initially.

That said, however, I know a number of HW's CAs (vendors) are working on a good many clothing products for Dawn 2.0, which I believe they'll be introducing at the same time Dawn 2.0 will make her appearance.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


ghostship2 ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 11:34 AM · edited Thu, 23 September 2021 at 11:34 AM

@Ken1171_Designs

Right now my only concern is that the vendors making stuff for Dawn 2 will ignore Poser users and only make stuff for DS. Big issue with Dawn 1 that still goes on to this day with new character morphs and stuff that only work in DS. No, I'm not going to load DS and convert something that should already be made for Poser. 3D-Universe might be a great vendor but they abandoned Poser a long time ago and afaik don't make any Poser compatible products any more.

W10, Ryzen 5 1600x, 16Gb,RTX2060Super+GTX980, PP11, 11.3.740


Miss B ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 11:44 AM

As I mentioned above, there are several HW vendors who are creating for Dawn 2.0, and I know of at least 2, whom I beta test for, are only Poser users, so there products will only be for Poser.

That said, HW creates all it's characters for both apps so, of course, there will be those creating only for DS, and there will be some who will create for both.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


Rhia474 ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 12:33 PM · edited Thu, 23 September 2021 at 12:34 PM

It is market driven. If vendors will only make content, or majority of content for Dawn 2's DS version, Poser user will not use Dawn 2.


We don't know  yet. But as a Poser user, if i don't see decent morphs, skins, clothes and shoes right out of the gate made for her Poser version, i see no reason to get her. I supported Dawn and Dawn SR as much as i could, but the majority of her stuff ended up being DS. 

It's the sad reality of how divided the market is these days. (And dont ask me why my post is in different fonts and bold, the new forum version is *hell* on a phone to type into, or edit.)


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 23 September 2021 at 2:02 PM

I'm excited about Dawn 2, and will get her. How much I'll actually use her depends on how much support she gets. 

I like La Femme, her default look is very cute, but she doesn't have enough support for me to use her much. Not a lot of morphs or textures, and not much clothing if you're not looking for pinup or club wear.

I do really like the dress Glitterati made for her, but I think when she pulled it from the market, that ended its chances of getting a lot of support. Even though it's free now...vendors seem hesitant to make add-ons for freebies.


jartz ( ) posted Fri, 24 September 2021 at 3:52 PM · edited Fri, 24 September 2021 at 3:52 PM

randym77 posted at 2:02 PM Thu, 23 September 2021 - #4427946

I'm excited about Dawn 2, and will get her. How much I'll actually use her depends on how much support she gets. 

I like La Femme, her default look is very cute, but she doesn't have enough support for me to use her much. Not a lot of morphs or textures, and not much clothing if you're not looking for pinup or club wear.

I do really like the dress Glitterati made for her, but I think when she pulled it from the market, that ended its chances of getting a lot of support. Even though it's free now...vendors seem hesitant to make add-ons for freebies.

ENQElwj9tetLyLS3pMtQrZT06KUopolVHNx9UGog.png

Same here, randym77.  I've been pretty much checking out the BTS, and hoping that it becomes a success - finger's crossed.  


JB

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gaming System (mostly for lite Graphics work) - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x · Marvelous Designer 8 · CorelDraw Graphics Suite X7_x  Inkscape · Gimp · Sketchup Make · Blender 2.80 · Davinci Resolve 15/16 · Vegas Pro 14 Edit · HitFilm Express 12 · Kdenlive 18x · Audacity


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