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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2022 May 20 12:17 am)


Subject: V4/M4 products now?


primorge ( ) posted Mon, 19 July 2021 at 2:08 PM · edited Fri, 20 May 2022 at 1:49 AM

I'm curious if people still buy character/texture sets for V4/M4, maybe asking forum regulars isn't the right demographic to ask this question of. I imagine there are a lot of lurkers who do not post. Also, are there many vendors making stuff, again character sets, specifically for those figures? I know people still probably buy clothing items and such for those figures, I do, but maybe the character set market has dried up? Just curious.


primorge ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2021 at 4:41 PM

Penguinisto posted at 4:40PM Wed, 04 August 2021 - #4424541

primorge posted at 3:52PM Wed, 04 August 2021 - #4424191

"The few remaining Poser users will not make so much traffic that such a thing would be unaffordable."

It's shocking how many people have left.

Some just lurk. On occasion. When the mood strikes. Or when it's time to dredge through the Freebies section. You know, stuff like that.

As for the Sasha thingy? Sadly, Wayback Machine came up dry as well. I promise I'm not snarking (because I still find myself on the lookout for stray NearMe stuff online - Niseisya actually still makes stuff for it on Pixiv (look up the site Pixiv, then the name, just don't check the R-18 option unless you want to see some stuff that will definitely make you recoil in disgust. On the other hand, you find gems like MNE in there - just look for "MNE dormant" , though he's definitely not been dormant.)

Anyrate, as you were...

I'm a member at pixiv. I'm fond of vroid and Japanese Poser figures and freebies myself.


primorge ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2021 at 4:43 PM · edited Wed, 04 August 2021 at 4:52 PM

MNE s'okay. My sera morph and jcm set will make his sera set obsolete though ;)

Edit; by tenfold


primorge ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2021 at 4:55 PM

Not that Sera isn't obsolete though lol. I love obsolete figures.


Penguinisto ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2021 at 5:04 PM

Me too. Even at the hobbyist level, a little sub-D and some asset conversions, and it's like you have a whole other figure.


primorge ( ) posted Wed, 04 August 2021 at 5:38 PM

Mightily resisting the urge to go on a long protracted tangent about Poser figures, something l love to do but sadly very little reciprocation here, I tend to go on and I get the impression it rubs folks here the wrong way. Actual fact is I spend too much time talking here that's time I'm wasting when I should be working on my projects. But I will say that I appreciate your interest in such things Penguinisto, I've noticed over time, especially since you're (AFAIK) now a DS user and there's that one size fits all thing they have. But yeah I like the "Island of Misfit Poser Figures" thing that exists, I sink alot of time into that as a collector and "modder" I guess you could say. Eventually want to get back to making my own figures though, in a strange way it's easier.

Anyway, since you like some of that Japanese stuff keep a look out for "Sera's Secret" which I'll be releasing as a freebie eventually, probably not overly long, I've been juggling a lot of projects though. It has some adults only feature's, but much more besides that, so not sure if I can host it here. Definitely not ShareCG, blech. I will announce it in the freebies section though. I think you might appreciate the sheer oddity and obsessiveness of the thing. I'll probably release it under this name. Ditto with some Antonia "things".

See. I went on again lol.


Penguinisto ( ) posted Thu, 12 August 2021 at 12:00 PM

Hah!


Inspired_Art ( ) posted Thu, 19 August 2021 at 8:40 PM · edited Thu, 19 August 2021 at 8:41 PM

Hopefully I can still post my thoughts here: I still have V4/M4 products on my wishlist here and over on DAZ that I will buy eventually. Yes, I am still using Poser 11 and will use Poser 12 as soon as it goes on sale. Right now DAZ is having a great sale, and I am buying items cheap that are normally like $20. But I do love Renderosity Items. I have about 662 items on my Rendo wishlist. Mostly M4/V4 with I think a few non-figure props. Over at DAZ I have 400 on my wishlist. I do like to use DS Studio, but since I am just almost starting (as opposed to barely starting) it's just not as fun as Poser. I started with Poser 4. Also looking forward to working with La Femme and Le Homme...

Eddy

 


WandW ( ) posted Mon, 23 August 2021 at 7:02 AM

primorge posted at 6:52AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4424042

This is merely speculation but Karina hasn't been around for a while. Maybe doing an Anton Kiesel... but AFAIK you can still find Apollo. Seems weird that the site is still up so maybe an exit stage left in preparation for an update.

I hope they are OK. One can find Apollo because it's on my Google Drive. I could put up Sasha16, but I only have the 2017 edition; I missed the 2019 window. I recall trying to download it but the link was dead.

There is some discussion of .cr2s; DAZ' EULA does allow some IP redistribution if the original product is required, and Karina does discuss this in the documentation; viz;

"The base mesh of V4, the Morphs++ package, and all the other morphs are owned by Daz3D, thus I can't distribute them. You need to own these items in order to make SASHA work! "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."

“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"

"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".


WandW ( ) posted Mon, 23 August 2021 at 7:40 AM · edited Mon, 23 August 2021 at 7:44 AM

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use": 😄

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."

“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"

"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".


adp001 ( ) posted Mon, 23 August 2021 at 10:19 AM

WandW posted at 10:16AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425863

I hope they are OK. One can find Apollo because it's on my Google Drive. I could put up Sasha16, but I only have the 2017 edition; I missed the 2019 window. I recall trying to download it but the link was dead.

I just found the original "SASHA-16(2019Edition).zip" downloaded 06/2019, on my backup drive. PM me if you want a copy.




adp001 ( ) posted Mon, 23 August 2021 at 6:35 PM

@all

WandW made my copy available for download via Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing




JimTS ( ) posted Thu, 30 September 2021 at 12:26 AM

Thanx both of you

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?


ssgbryan ( ) posted Wed, 01 December 2021 at 10:36 AM

I go back further than V4 - I am still buying 2nd & 3rd gen Daz stuff, as well as legacy Poser stuff.  You have to do this, if you want a wide variety of characters. Pick any particular character vendor; for the most part, all of their characters look like they are closely related.  By using different base meshes, you avoid that.  Added bonus, Poser allows us to add new features (weight mapping, body chips, etc) to any mesh that doesn't already have them

Poser gives us the ability to separate clothing from figures, every character has access to every other figure's wardrobe (except for shoes - OTOH, if I ever get the hang of Shoe Last, that problem will also go away.

We also have helper programs that will allow us to move skin textures from one figure to another, hair from one figure to another, and the ability to add DS content into Poser, and save it out as Poser-native.


We have it better than everybody; well, everyone that actually uses the features available to them.




JimTS ( ) posted Thu, 02 December 2021 at 1:30 PM

The Best is yet to come and it's time to upgrade to a better box!

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?


takezo3001 ( ) posted Wed, 15 December 2021 at 10:06 PM

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!



primorge ( ) posted Wed, 15 December 2021 at 10:15 PM
takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.


primorge ( ) posted Wed, 15 December 2021 at 10:27 PM

From my recollection it was actually miniscule scaling errors from multiple export import procedures with morphs, adding up into big problems over time, in particular with single morph targets, that were a real issue. Haven't seen that problem since Poser 8 or thereabouts...


Y-Phil ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 1:27 AM

WandW posted at 7:40 AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425868

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use": 😄

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

Sorry: I wasn't aware of the above thread before. If you would like to download the official Sasha-19 version, here is the original ZIP file:

https://kdrive.digital-paradize.com/app/share/116364/a590114f-92b3-4429-9463-f638386a1d49


Y-Phil.


Win10 on i7 8700K@4.3Ghz, 32Gb, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, 2x 2Tb ssd + 1x 6Tb hd, Poser 11, Poser 12, Octane, HDR Light Studio


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 3:44 AM

primorge posted at 10:15 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431912

takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.
This was the method I used ten or so years ago

It was truly a slog compared with the frightfully easy way of doing it now with generation 5-8 export to Zbrush=> morph=> Import back into DS, I don't know how easy it is now in poser 12 as I refuse to pay for always-online DRM for my 3D progs otherwise I would have snagged it!

But yeah, even with scripts you were still limited to morphing inside the confines of V4's rig, as you could not make her into a literal T-Rex! Yeah, yeah I know it's for the male character, but still...

I would guess that poser 12 has that same tech available, though V4 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because she represents/symbolizes old tech and those still clinging to the long-dead past instead of moving forward, as Le Femme is a step in the right direction, let's just hope people don't become complacent and stop developing for her in favor of just sticking to the inane "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude!



Y-Phil ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 4:16 AM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 4:16 AM

takezo3001 posted at 3:44 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431923

primorge posted at 10:15 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431912

takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.
This was the method I used ten or so years ago

It was truly a slog compared with the frightfully easy way of doing it now with generation 5-8 export to Zbrush=> morph=> Import back into DS, I don't know how easy it is now in poser 12 as I refuse to pay for always-online DRM for my 3D progs otherwise I would have snagged it!

But yeah, even with scripts you were still limited to morphing inside the confines of V4's rig, as you could not make her into a literal T-Rex! Yeah, yeah I know it's for the male character, but still...

I would guess that poser 12 has that same tech available, though V4 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because she represents/symbolizes old tech and those still clinging to the long-dead past instead of moving forward, as Le Femme is a step in the right direction, let's just hope people don't become complacent and stop developing for her in favor of just sticking to the inane "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude!

You may be perfectly right on a technical point of view, and I won't discuss it as it's not my in my field of competence, but I find the way to explain it rather harsh and it somewhat looks like public denigration for those who stick with them, and from time to time with Aiko3-based characters

I mean: have you ever tried to strike a complex pose with La Femme, and then tried the same pose with Sasha-19 (yes it's a Vic4, a weightmapped version)?
I've done the test by posing L'Homme lately and "the long-dead past" is 20x faster and easier to pose.

From time to time, I even had to abandon the idea of a dynamic cloth with some  La Femme characters, whereas I've never had a single problem with those long-dead past thingies , not to count of the incredible number if existing morphs to change the shape of the body, modern characters such as La Femme is very, very, very far behind if you're not a modeler, which does not prevent me from fully supporting La Femme and many related products.

Y-Phil.


Win10 on i7 8700K@4.3Ghz, 32Gb, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, 2x 2Tb ssd + 1x 6Tb hd, Poser 11, Poser 12, Octane, HDR Light Studio


primorge ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 8:05 AM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 8:13 AM

I use mainly La Femme. But more recently I've been tinkering with a new figure, Nova. Personally I can find uses for most of my Poser figures. I use Zbrush, Mudbox, Blender, and more recently have started to subscribing to 3d coat. For a strictly "I have an idea for a render and I need a human figure to look like..." It's really not an issue as all of these models can be posed, welded, and exported from Poser. Including clothing and hair. At that point they can be changed just as you would any basemesh or model. These things are obj models first and Poser figures after the fact, and this route goes in both directiions.

V4 has a ton of content. Plain and simple. I like her topology also, which I know is a contentious subject. Sasha 16 is ok. I don't particularly care for her weightmapping to be honest, it's better than nothing though. Both La Femme AND V4 Sasha 16 can be improved via further jcms to more fit my preferences, I've done so with La Femme (for, as yet, personal use, particularly for pin up/nudey mag type stuff). There's only so many hours in the day.

There's no perfect figure, in any software. Period. (Edit; a very subjective statement I know, the point being there's always fixes needed and room for improvement)


primorge ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 8:42 AM
Y-Phil posted at 1:27 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431918

WandW posted at 7:40 AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425868

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use": 😄

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

Sorry: I wasn't aware of the above thread before. If you would like to download the official Sasha-19 version, here is the original ZIP file:

https://kdrive.digital-paradize.com/app/share/116364/a590114f-92b3-4429-9463-f638386a1d49


Thanks for that. I have the latest Sasha but I can't seem to find my backup archives. Good to have.


ssgbryan ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 2:05 PM

takezo3001 posted at 3:44 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431923


I would guess that poser 12 has that same tech available, though V4 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because she represents/symbolizes old tech and those still clinging to the long-dead past instead of moving forward, as Le Femme is a step in the right direction, let's just hope people don't become complacent and stop developing for her in favor of just sticking to the inane "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude!

My time is valuable - anything I can do to save it, I am going to do it. It isn't clinging to the long-dead past. It is more of a Use the right tool for the job situation. 

If I need ANYTHING outside of pin up, V4/M4 is the way to go - there is more content (by multiple orders of magnitude) than all other post-V4/M4 Poser figures combined. V4/M4 is the lingua franca for Poser - and that isn't changing anytime soon - .  I have via Poser, the ability to add features such as weight mapping, subdivision, body chips, etc to any figure I want to use.  Why limit myself to one that has such little support?

I view Le Femme as a solution in search of a problem.  To be brutal about it - why should I use Le Femme? I own all of blackhearted figures going all the way back the the V3 era, that is all she looks like to me.  What problem does she solve?  The only thing I can see is "bending".  This is an issue if the artist only cares about pin up, with near naked figures.  If I don't do that, why bother?

Le Femme (and to a greater extent) La Homme lack pretty much everything.  There is very little in the way of characters, clothing, etc.  What is available is mostly niche outfits.  Closing in on two years, and neither figure has a basic wardrobe.  That is going to slow down adoption pretty fast.  How many characters are available?  How many are NOT early 20's Caucasians?  Not a lot to work with outside of pin up - which I got tired of about 10 years ago.

I need so much more than LF & LH offer, so my solution is to use everything



Rhia474 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 5:13 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 5:14 PM

Okay, some wee nitpicks.

1. LA Femme and LE Homme (L'Homme if you are precise)--feminine and masculine. Sorry, but it hurts.

2. Both have basic wardrobes--both have pants, t-shirts, sneakers, boots, underwear. That's what basic is in my book. LH even has suits. Let me know if you want me to post the links.

3. La Femme has quite a few ethnic characters, Le Homme much less--maybe because in my opinion, LH is atrociously badly planned, shoulders, torso, hips... and people just don't want to work with him. If you only do portraits, he is amazing.


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 5:43 PM

Y-Phil posted at 4:16 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431925

You may be perfectly right on a technical point of view, and I won't discuss it as it's not my in my field of competence, but I find the way to explain it rather harsh and it somewhat looks like public denigration for those who stick with them, and from time to time with Aiko3-based characters

I mean: have you ever tried to strike a complex pose with La Femme, and then tried the same pose with Sasha-19 (yes it's a Vic4, a weightmapped version)?
I've done the test by posing L'Homme lately and "the long-dead past" is 20x faster and easier to pose.

From time to time, I even had to abandon the idea of a dynamic cloth with some  La Femme characters, whereas I've never had a single problem with those long-dead past thingies , not to count of the incredible number if existing morphs to change the shape of the body, modern characters such as La Femme is very, very, very far behind if you're not a modeler, which does not prevent me from fully supporting La Femme and many related products.

My criticism is definitely against the stagnation of our industry (Hobbyist 3D artist) as it is relatively small compared with the semi/pro level of 3D artists, and it is our industry that is plagued with the if it ain't broke don't fix attitude, so yeah I want to see the Poser community thrive and not stagnate, but it won't, not with that attitude; how can it when a large percentage of its users reject new tech/innovation and consider it a useless fad?

This is an industry that relies wholly on new tech/innovation in order to improve and get better, and thrive, and if it doesn't grow to attract new people then just how do you suppose it will even last as there is no one else looking to buy Poser if Bondware decides to slow down development for it... I mean there are no demands for new features as the majority of its users are fine with the status quo as this subforum has very little activity...

I don't use poser anymore ever since Daz stopped their character support, and I would buy poser 12 as it does have a robust character creation suite, yet I refuse to pay for always-online DRM; as far as posing is concerned I have a much better time with the various generations of characters past the 4th generation and have many more scenes made than I ever have with posette/V2-V4 so I've been around since poser 3 and there are some definite strengths that I want with Poser, too bad I'll never use them as I don't support always-online DRM!

I still hope that Le Femme is a contender as competition is best for both programs/characters as she represents change, adaptation, and innovation and I hope she continues to grow, but she won't if the very people that continue to use/support V4 reject anything about the french duo as new-fangled, and if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude gets applied to them, which it has to a point as there's far fewer content than there is for the 4th generation of Daz characters, not to mention the 5th-8th...

So yes, I don't care for that attitude, and I'm not trying to be being harsh, it's just that there's there is no way of criticizing that attitude where people here won't take offense to it, but the subject still needs to be discussed if we want to be able to enjoy Poser ten years from now...

ssgbryan posted at 2:05 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431955

My time is valuable - anything I can do to save it, I am going to do it. It isn't clinging to the long-dead past. It is more of a Use the right tool for the job situation.

If I need ANYTHING outside of pin up, V4/M4 is the way to go - there is more content (by multiple orders of magnitude) than all other post-V4/M4 Poser figures combined. V4/M4 is the lingua franca for Poser - and that isn't changing anytime soon - .  I have via Poser, the ability to add features such as weight mapping, subdivision, body chips, etc to any figure I want to use.  Why limit myself to one that has such little support?

I view Le Femme as a solution in search of a problem.  To be brutal about it - why should I use Le Femme? I own all of blackhearted figures going all the way back the the V3 era, that is all she looks like to me.  What problem does she solve?  The only thing I can see is "bending".  This is an issue if the artist only cares about pin up, with near naked figures.  If I don't do that, why bother?

Le Femme (and to a greater extent) La Homme lack pretty much everything.  There is very little in the way of characters, clothing, etc.  What is available is mostly niche outfits.  Closing in on two years, and neither figure has a basic wardrobe.  That is going to slow down adoption pretty fast.  How many characters are available?  How many are NOT early 20's Caucasians?  Not a lot to work with I need outside of pin up - which I got tired of about 10 years ago. so much more than LF & LH offer, so my solution is to use everything

If you don't fit the description, why choose to get offended by it? It's like a world-class athlete and yoga instructor getting offended when someone calls them fat...You're 100% correct though, Le Femme could use much better and diverse content, as the world is not made up of a singular demographic, and she is definitely stagnating compared with V4 and could very well be a driving force for this program's 1st party character...

The main reason why The French duo lacks everything compared with the 4th generation is that the poser community largely sticks to that generation only, and does not want anything new or different so there's no driving force for innovation as no one is buying anything put out for them (Just like with Don/Jessy, remember them?) which kills the motivation for content creation altogether, hence my criticism with the if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude, and using Le Femme's stagnation as an example is a perfect representation.

As far as content, the 4th-8th generation of Daz models and even the current models can still use V4's entire library as well as the entirety of the genesis 1-8 model's, as Daz's character development has not stopped with V4, as there was still demand for new and better solutions, Hell, I was using both but stopped when Daz quit developing their characters for poser and I refuse to buy P12 as I don't care for always-online DRM, in spite of loving poser's character development suite as even their animation tools far surpass DS's own!

I consider them as 3D programs not people or creatures with any sentience that we owe our allegiance, they're simply tools for the artist to create with...




hornet3d ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 6:21 PM

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

 

 

I use Poser 12 on Windows 10 - Set up is a quiet running PC thanks mainly to a Fractal Design XL R2 case and 4 large fans,  Gigabyte AMD Aorus X399 Xtreme E-XTX Motherboard,  AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .  Storage - Samsung 500gig 970 EVO m.2, Samsung 500Gig 860 EVO SSD,  2X 2Tb Segate Barrcuda hard drives.

  


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 6:30 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 6:32 PM

I don't think that I'd say La Femme is stagnating. There are new products for her in the RMP every week. Vendors aren't making anything for V4 any more. Maybe there will be V4 fits for hair or dynamic clothes, but you don't see stuff made specifically for V4 these days. This suggests the customers have moved on.

It is hard to compete with V4's backlog, though. I would guess most of us are not as skilled as ssgbryan or primorge. We're not going to open up the hood and tinker. Even converting clothing is pretty inconvenient for the average user.

I use both V4 and La Femme (and others, too). But V4 more, because there just isn't enough support for La Femme yet. Clothes, textures, morphs. If you want to do a render of, say, a block party in Mumbai, you need more than one or two "ethnic" textures. I think there's only a handful of vendors making stuff for La Femme, and they can only work so fast. (There's also a tendency for characters made by the same vendor to look somewhat alike, further limiting diversity.)

I am kind of excited about Dawn 2. It sounds like they've really put a lot of thought into her, and are doing some innovative things. They may not work out, but why make a new figure if you're not going to do something new? And it seems like they have enough people working on content that she'll have decent support.




takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 6:42 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 6:48 PM

hornet3d posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431974

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

Why would anyone use the entire library? Simple, they made some excellent clothes for V4 and why not use them for improved versions of the figure? Plus you can easily change the materials from PoserPP/ 3Delite to Iray as all you need to do is select all the materials, hit Iray uber default and you're golden!

And you can easily convert clothing to be used with DForce...

==============================================================

randym77 posted at 6:30 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431975

I don't think that I'd say La Femme is stagnating. There are new products for her in the RMP every week. Vendors aren't making anything for V4 any more. Maybe there will be V4 fits for hair or dynamic clothes, but you don't see stuff made specifically for V4 these days. This suggests the customers have moved on.

It is hard to compete with V4's backlog, though. I would guess most of us are not as skilled as ssgbryan or primorge. We're not going to open up the hood and tinker. Even converting clothing is pretty inconvenient for the average user.

I use both V4 and La Femme (and others, too). But V4 more, because there just isn't enough support for La Femme yet. Clothes, textures, morphs. If you want to do a render of, say, a block party in Mumbai, you need more than one or two "ethnic" textures. I think there's only a handful of vendors making stuff for La Femme, and they can only work so fast. (There's also a tendency for characters made by the same vendor to look somewhat alike, further limiting diversity.)

I am kind of excited about Dawn 2. It sounds like they've really put a lot of thought into her, and are doing some innovative things. They may not work out, but why make a new figure if you're not going to do something new? And it seems like they have enough people working on content that she'll have decent support.

=================================================================================================

Good, I really like the idea of being wrong about this, here's to Dawn 2!



hornet3d ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 7:05 PM
takezo3001 posted at 6:42 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431978

hornet3d posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431974

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

Why would anyone use the entire library? Simple, they made some excellent clothes for V4 and why not use them for improved versions of the figure? Plus you can easily change the materials from PoserPP/ 3Delite to Iray as all you need to do is select all the materials, hit Iray uber default and you're golden!

And you can easily convert clothing to be used with DForce...

==============================================================

Still not convinced that the end result will be as good as the best being created for the present figures.  What appears to be easy for some is not so easy for others so many users would not do the conversion anyway and would stick with old materials.  

Still I guess it is down to the individual artist all I know is that, despite the shortage of content for Dawn, I rarely use anything from my V4 runtimes.  Poses are the only exception as most V4 poses work with Dawn with virtually no adjustment except maybe around the neck and fingers.   As the loaded pose is only ever a starting pose for me this minor adjustment is not real bother.

 

 

I use Poser 12 on Windows 10 - Set up is a quiet running PC thanks mainly to a Fractal Design XL R2 case and 4 large fans,  Gigabyte AMD Aorus X399 Xtreme E-XTX Motherboard,  AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .  Storage - Samsung 500gig 970 EVO m.2, Samsung 500Gig 860 EVO SSD,  2X 2Tb Segate Barrcuda hard drives.

  


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 7:48 PM
hornet3d posted at 7:05 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431983
Still not convinced that the end result will be as good as the best being created for the present figures.  What appears to be easy for some is not so easy for others so many users would not do the conversion anyway and would stick with old materials.  

Still I guess it is down to the individual artist all I know is that, despite the shortage of content for Dawn, I rarely use anything from my V4 runtimes.  Poses are the only exception as most V4 poses work with Dawn with virtually no adjustment except maybe around the neck and fingers.   As the loaded pose is only ever a starting pose for me this minor adjustment is not real bother.

Fair enough point...



randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 7:51 PM

Judging from the Star Trek thread at DAZ...it is more difficult than you'd think, converting stuff from V4 to Genesis. But there's also interest in doing it. There's a TON of Star Trek stuff made for V4, M4, and even older figures. Morphs, uniforms, textures. (Orion's Jeri Ryan morph is the best I've ever seen. I still use it, even though it's for V3.)

And there's still no real substitute for the Valiant and Courageous outfits, as a base for uniforms. People making Trek uniforms for Genesis usually use a bodysuit, but most of the Trek uniforms aren't skin tight bodysuits.

Niche use, I'm sure, but aren't they all? Not everyone wants to make hyperealistic renders. Just judging from the galleries, there's a lot of people doing toon or illustrative renders. Personally, I'm more likely to use Photoshop to make a render look hand-drawn than I am to aim for photoreal.


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 8:43 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 8:51 PM

randym77 posted at 7:51 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431986

Judging from the Star Trek thread at DAZ...it is more difficult than you'd think, converting stuff from V4 to Genesis. But there's also interest in doing it. There's a TON of Star Trek stuff made for V4, M4, and even older figures. Morphs, uniforms, textures. (Orion's Jeri Ryan morph is the best I've ever seen. I still use it, even though it's for V3.)

And there's still no real substitute for the Valiant and Courageous outfits, as a base for uniforms. People making Trek uniforms for Genesis usually use a bodysuit, but most of the Trek uniforms aren't skin tight bodysuits.

Niche use, I'm sure, but aren't they all? Not everyone wants to make hyperealistic renders. Just judging from the galleries, there's a lot of people doing toon or illustrative renders. Personally, I'm more likely to use Photoshop to make a render look hand-drawn than I am to aim for photoreal.

Yeah, there are a ton of incredibly made V4 clothing, hell, there was a thread about this very thing over at the Daz forums (Don't ask me to find it as their search engine sucks!) so no wonder there is still an interest for them! :)

Also, there's another debate thread over at the Daz forums with 3Delight (stylistic renders) vs Iray (Realistic renders) For me personally, I had a great time using stylized sculpted lighting for use with my old renders, take a look at my old rendo gallery! Yet I have been tending towards more realistic renders now, but I just may re-do some of my old scenes using a custom toon with sculpted lighting!



Rhia474 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:22 PM

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!


primorge ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:34 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:39 PM

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

I may be wrong but there's a terminology in certain types of stylized drawing and painting that's akin to "sculptural lighting", I've heard it referred as such in the past. It's similar to ambient occlusion type effects or an overall 'sculptural' type of non realistic light that uniformly models light and shade. Hence a sculptural effect. Non realistic Poser lighting and diffuse can produce this kind of thing easily. You see it alot in old Poser images... note: a very off the cuff explanation, but I come from a traditional drawing/painting/sculpture background and this is where I've encountered it. Very much like this...

b2JDyhMV5u5KkxSYb2inih9c81zGCmUKkpnCKN35.png


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:44 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:47 PM

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

Hogarth is a prime example of using this lighting technique!

I find it compelling as it perfectly enhances details, but is wholly unrealistic and much more stylistic! :)



takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:45 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:47 PM
primorge posted at 9:34 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431989

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

I may be wrong but there's a terminology in certain types of stylized drawing and painting that's akin to "sculptural lighting", I've heard it referred as such in the past. It's similar to ambient occlusion type effects or an overall 'sculptural' type of non realistic light that uniformly models light and shade. Hence a sculptural effect. Non realistic Poser lighting and diffuse can produce this kind of thing easily. You see it alot in old Poser images... note: a very off the cuff explanation, but I come from a traditional drawing/painting/sculpture background and this is where I've encountered it. Very much like this...

*Snip*

LOL, You beat me to it, and with the exact same example that I posted no less, and yes it's not sculpted, but sculptural lighting, it's been a looong time since I used that terminology!



primorge ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:49 PM

;)


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:57 PM · edited Thu, 16 December 2021 at 9:57 PM

If you want a great example used with poser look at my brownish demon in my gallery!



Rhia474 ( ) posted Fri, 17 December 2021 at 7:15 AM

Got it, thank you very much. I am familiar with the style, now I know the name. Now. How would you create it in Poser?


primorge ( ) posted Fri, 17 December 2021 at 9:32 AM
Rhia474 posted at 7:15 AM Fri, 17 December 2021 - #4432006

Got it, thank you very much. I am familiar with the style, now I know the name. Now. How would you create it in Poser?

Invested in this I see. I'll post a few different ways I would do it with varying degrees of intensity. I'm at work but if I have time, I'm finishing up an upload for a morph/jcm/pose controller system for Nova that I'd like to package up and share this weekend, I'll post something with that style here... Sometime.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Fri, 17 December 2021 at 7:35 PM

Take your time; I will be out of town for the holiday until next Monday with no Poser access. And thank you, looking forward to it when you have time.


primorge ( ) posted Fri, 17 December 2021 at 9:33 PM · edited Fri, 17 December 2021 at 9:33 PM

Michael 4.

Set up starts with posing Michael 4 to approximate the Hogarth pose. Exported to mudbox and some details added. Set up a simple OpenGL stippling shader. It's just an edge blend and a noise run through a multiply. Preview render, render time: 2 seconds.

I'll post an IBL/Ambient Occlusion set up tomorrow using V4.

t46Pm5HH9J0zSQajemBxekZuwGpdLkaiPIEnnRL0.png

JilGn6tKRtyCjX8fqiSpjjBKykDO2jLyNXeCddC7.png

pDkQXDvv4h91pXsh7EBEgU16QeWpdEqhdFboChqf.png

bPdVEsagPdcseTKzny8N5X09AphenMJbJ51n6ABB.png

EyDzO9NLLg9wKh6cIomRux5bpgIYIRQKOUwEbB5V.png


takezo3001 ( ) posted Sat, 18 December 2021 at 1:32 PM

This is a pretty spectacular rendering of Hogarth's work! It's a shame that you don't have a Rendo gallery!




primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 December 2021 at 2:32 PM · edited Sun, 19 December 2021 at 2:32 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Sorry late with this, distracted by other things. I use variations of this a lot, sometimes with composites of sketch renderer passes mixed in, for "sculptural" type stuff...

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2890236

In this instance an IBL/AO hybrid with low IBL intensity and a single spot. Materials are just a noise and blinn but the different objects in the scene have varying diffuse values. Figure is La Femme (I know I said V4 but I have so many morphs I've made for LF and I hardly ever render them, so it was an opportunity to dial some in... OT figure). All shapes/sculpts/morphs are mine.

The render took about 5 or 6 minutes.

BJ1C94U5LmfK05efnZW0876sAyUQ29F4Txe4Hb3E.png


takezo3001 ( ) posted Sun, 19 December 2021 at 2:56 PM · edited Sun, 19 December 2021 at 2:56 PM
primorge posted at 2:32 PM Sun, 19 December 2021 - #4432115

Sorry late with this, distracted by other things. I use variations of this a lot, sometimes with composites of sketch renderer passes mixed in, for "sculptural" type stuff...

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2890236

In this instance an IBL/AO hybrid with low IBL intensity and a single spot. Materials are just a noise and blinn but the different objects in the scene have varying diffuse values. Figure is La Femme (I know I said V4 but I have so many morphs I've made for LF and I hardly ever render them, so it was an opportunity to dial some in... OT figure). All shapes/sculpts/morphs are mine.

The render took about 5 or 6 minutes.

I'm really digging your artwork, I'm gonna have to save this thread!



primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 December 2021 at 6:43 PM

Thanks takezo3001


takezo3001 ( ) posted Thu, 23 December 2021 at 1:24 AM
primorge posted at 6:43 PM Sun, 19 December 2021 - #4432126

Thanks takezo3001

Sorry for the delayed response, but I had a vicious virus attack and had to reset my PC, but you are very welcome; I would love to see your gallery!



RedPhantom ( ) posted Thu, 23 December 2021 at 8:41 AM · edited Thu, 23 December 2021 at 8:42 AM
Forum Moderator

undefined posted at 2:08 PM Mon, 19 July 2021 - #2963675

I'm curious if people still buy character/texture sets for V4/M4, maybe asking forum regulars isn't the right demographic to ask this question of. I imagine there are a lot of lurkers who do not post. Also, are there many vendors making stuff, again character sets, specifically for those figures? I know people still probably buy clothing items and such for those figures, I do, but maybe the character set market has dried up? Just curious.

Few who post here also post in the galleries and there are members who buy but don't do either, so I don't know if what those in the forums say has any bearing on Poser users' opinions in general. It might be an accurate representation, but I have no way to know that. But taking a look at several pages on the new products in the marketplace, I don't see anything for V4, save possible hair that can be used on multiple figures. Anything for a figure was for either G3/8 or for Lafemme/L'homme.

I have no special insights or information that any other member can't get just by looking at the site, but my guess is that perhaps, the V4 customer base is waning. Most here who say they use V4 say they use her because they have so much stuff for her, which implies they might not need to buy much. Newer users who don't have all that much content may decide to use and support the current figure that comes with the software rather than pay for an older figure who (at full price) costs $30 for just the base figure. Yes, I know you can usually find her on sale, but new users may not know that.


Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 12 and win 10


primorge ( ) posted Thu, 23 December 2021 at 10:31 AM

Odd that this thread is still lingering on.

I'll answer my own OP.

I'd be inclined to use V4/M4 for my own personal things occasionally. Especially M4. I'd lean absolutely toward creating redistributable things for LF or a host of other figures before I'd spend the time doing so for the Gen4. If I wanted to try and sell something it would definitely be for LF rather than V4, I already have so many things made that are in varying stages of completion... but I like to obsess over details, tinkering and such so commerce is just a hazy notion. Looking forward to seeing what Dawn2 brings to the table.


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 23 December 2021 at 10:33 AM

Yes, I think a lot of us who still use V4 don't need to buy a lot of stuff for her because we already have so much. I have fifteen years worth of stuff.

And it's often so cheap, because it's older. You can get all kinds of characters for her for $3.50, even less.  DAZ sometimes gives away V4 bundles, and often puts their older items on deep discount. 

I still buy a lot of stuff for V4, but I rarely pay more than a few bucks for anything. That's the market these days. Which is probably why the vendors don't make stuff for her any more.


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