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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2021 Sep 22 5:52 am)


Subject: Morph Test Request


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:31 PM

I've been creating some free morphs for Antonia 1_2_0 and have just made an Eye Scale morph which utilizes Poser's Match Centers To Morph Command...

Antonia 1_2_0 can be found here...

http://sahanisworld.com/FL%20Site%20One/AntoniasFreeItems.htm

Here is default Antonia, grey areas indicate meshes for brows and lashes intended for transmapping...

illo1.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:32 PM

Here is the Eye Scale morph I made dialed to 1...

illo2.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:39 PM

After setting up limits ( the limits are 1 and -0.500) and matching centers to morphs my tests show that the eyeballs origins are behaving as required when the morph is dialed in. Consequently all of the eye expressions such as side to side and up down are behaving as expected. I'll need to create a fix for the eyes closed as the lids dont quite close fully with the morph dialed in. In any case it's an easy fix and there's no poke through to deal with.

The morph effects the head and left and right eye actors. The master is in the body. I've found that injections for multi actor head morphs propagate more predictably with the master in the body.

Here is the origin of the eye in the default state...

illo4.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:41 PM

Here is the origin after dialing the morph to one, this is from the inject generation and not the original scene setup. The match centers behaves as expected and moves to follow the morph...

illo5.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:42 PM

Here is the Injection file...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MAtKmAd3sVPmS9WudBx6vG30wDYgF1yI/view?usp=drivesdk


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 6:53 PM

In the past I've set up such an injection for someone who was having problems with saving injections and insisted that match centers command does not propegate to inject. So I created the injection and tested it and it worked for me. I sent the person the injection file and never heard back. I messaged them and they gave me a vague response that it didn't work. Naturally I was confused as I was sitting there with working, tested files that behaved normally.

Later on I heard a couple of other people mention that match centers doesn't copy to inject. Mind you this is from Poser tech people. My curiosity increased because I have multiple files that do in fact work.

Anyway, before I include this morph and others like it in a distribution I want to confirm that someone else using the inject gets the same results as I'm showing. The testing requires Antonia 1_2_0 in front camera mode, mesh set as outline, and display origin toggles for one of the eyes. Inject the morph, dial to 1, and observe if the eyes origins follow the morph by remaining at the center of the eyeball.

My gratitude to whomever performs this test and gives me feedback.

illo3.png


odf ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 8:29 PM

That's very cool. In fact, I had been contemplating a morph to change the proportions between head and eyes just the other day.

Will test in Poser 12 after work today of my sinuses let me.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:09 PM

Thanks odf


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:09 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:11 PM

Tested it and it works, to a degree.. The animated joint centers are changing with the morph, but they aren't keeping true center with the eyes. So the eyes are shifting slightly with the up/down - side/side movements.

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:20 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:20 PM

Hi bwldrd, are you getting poke through? I'm aware that the z axis didn't center quite right but I didn't see any consequence with the existing eye morphs. In other words good enough for creature morphs and use of those original dials...


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:22 PM

I'm trying to avoid JCMs lol.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:27 PM

I suppose I could redo it and have a match centers to each individual eye rather than both simultaneously, if that makes sense, maybe the match centers command would be more accurate if it were only dealing with an individual origin? Hoping like hell that the current build is "good enough"...


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:27 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:29 PM

No pokethrough with just the plain face, I didn't try it with anything other than the movement dials/morphs at maximum dial settings..

The centers are not off on just the z axis, they are off on all 3. not by a lot, but enough to notice the eye is twitching(?) when you move it. May not notice to much in a still but if anyone tries to animate, it will be noticeable.

The morph was tried in both poser 11 and 12, on all 3 Antionias that I have 1.2 1.2A and WM.

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:35 PM

The problem is that the more dependencies and exotic links you hook up into an inject is just asking for trouble... especially trouble I'm not Poser code clever enough to solve. Can a match centers command be mastered by an additional controller for instance? And would all of that be injectable. You can create some pretty complex relations in a cr2 but once you try to copy all that to an inject you start to run into some unknown territory.


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:37 PM

I tried it with just and individual eye, after deleting the morphs from everywhere else, so that the morph was just on that eye alone and tried the match centers. They moved with the morph, but still arent centering correctly

I suppose I could redo it and have a match centers to each individual eye rather than both simultaneously, if that makes sense, maybe the match centers command would be more accurate if it were only dealing with an individual origin? Hoping like hell that the current build is "good enough"...

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:40 PM

bwldrd posted at 9:36PM Sun, 11 July 2021 - #4422993

No pokethrough with just the plain face, I didn't try it with anything other than the movement dials/morphs at maximum dial settings..

The centers are not off on just the z axis, they are off on all 3. not by a lot, but enough to notice the eye is twitching(?) when you move it. May not notice to much in a still but if anyone tries to animate, it will be noticeable.

The morph was tried in both poser 11 and 12, on all 3 Antionias that I have 1.2 1.2A and WM.

Well that's great news! Sorry animators lol. I know, that sounds kind of lame. If anyone gets "twitching" in a still they have more to worry about than my morph lol. I'm just glad the thing copied. It's still a little bothersome that I'm not seeing it but I'll have to take a closer look. It's the reason I asked after all.

Thanks bwldrd and odf.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:41 PM

bwldrd posted at 9:41PM Sun, 11 July 2021 - #4422995

I tried it with just and individual eye, after deleting the morphs from everywhere else, so that the morph was just on that eye alone and tried the match centers. They moved with the morph, but still arent centering correctly

I suppose I could redo it and have a match centers to each individual eye rather than both simultaneously, if that makes sense, maybe the match centers command would be more accurate if it were only dealing with an individual origin? Hoping like hell that the current build is "good enough"...

So match centers IS bugged.


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 9:48 PM

This may be a dumb question, but what are you units set at in your preferences, I have mine set at inches and wondering if that may cause a difference. Though I wouldn't think it should.

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:01 PM

Inches. I'm looking at the morph right now. I'm seeing the slightest lag when I rotate the eyes with it on. Like the dial is sluggish a bit. Not really seeing any twitching besides the dial jitteryness. Totally workable for stills and perhaps animation too. I'll do some short animation tests. The jitter in the dial shouldn't have any bearing in rotation states in key frames, at least in theory.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:03 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:03 PM

It's almost like the tracking scale of the up down side side dials is confused a little.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:09 PM

Also, good to know that my morphs work in other versions of Antonia besides 1_2_0...


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:38 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:39 PM

I'm wondering if the problem may be because Antonia's eyes are modeled (and the default y orientation for the joint center) is on a 5 degree angle instead of straight ahead like most other models and that is what throwing off the centers when they are animated.

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:46 PM · edited Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:47 PM

Might be. I noticed that too. I've seen other figures with centers oriented like that. Antonia was pretty avante garde back then. I'm just now playing with the figure, although one version or another has been in my runtimes for a long time. I rebuilt alot of my runtimes when my last computer croaked. Maybe it's time I put some textures and shaders on her. She morphs pretty well, I tend to prefer medium res figures for morphing.

a3.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:46 PM

a2.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:46 PM

a1.png


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 11 July 2021 at 10:52 PM

...A few more eye positioning morphs and then on to her mouth and jaws. And then some character shaping details I think.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 12 July 2021 at 2:54 AM

So weird, I love it.

And I'm seeing the same effect as bwldrd. The center of rotation moves, but not quite to the center of the scaled eyeball. Probably nothing I would have noticed in a thousand years if I hadn't specifically looked for it. :-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 12 July 2021 at 3:00 AM

Speaking of avantgarde: I thought I was so clever when I made the hand and foot scale drive the scale of the attached fingers, toes etcetera. But now when I load Antonia into Poser, save the scene and try to import it into another software I shall not name, those extra parts are all scaled to 300%. Fine with me, I guess, as long as it keeps working correctly in Poser. :-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Mon, 12 July 2021 at 6:22 AM

Thanks for looking odf... I think I'm just going to learn how to use Poser's animated joint centers functions and start doing it manually. It's something that I frequently need to use.


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