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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2022 May 27 12:14 pm)


Subject: HDR and Poser Pro 11


arrow1 ( ) posted Sat, 24 February 2018 at 4:20 PM · edited Fri, 27 May 2022 at 10:44 AM

Can anyone assist me with a step by step tutorial on how to put a HDR scene into Poser Pro 11? I have looked up online and found two scenarios which for me do not work! One is with BB's enviro the other is to put it into the material object background node.I keep getting told that they are to big and that 4000 pixels width is unacceptable! Any help would be appreciated. Cheers

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Biscuits ( ) posted Sat, 24 February 2018 at 4:36 PM

EZDome highly recommended!

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ironsoul ( ) posted Sat, 24 February 2018 at 6:17 PM · edited Sat, 24 February 2018 at 6:19 PM

Not saying this is for everyone as not very scientific but I use the set-up below for Superfly. Hide construct, add BB's envsphere. Download image from HDRI Haven - eg Waterbuck trail. Set-up nodes below and add HDR image into EnvironmentTexture node. Set emission strength to 1 and Bright/Contrast levels to zero (both nodes). Turn off all lights and try test render. If too dark then increase Emission to get approx levels ( normally in range 1- 5) and then use the Bright/Contrast to set contrast (normally in range 0 - 0.5 range). There is a seperate channel for lighting and background image and then basically operate in chimp mode until happy. I suggest trying out several hdr images to see which works best with the materials/atmosphere you want to create. From a post at RDNA but I forgot who it came from so apologies for no credit.

image.png



ironsoul ( ) posted Sat, 24 February 2018 at 6:31 PM · edited Sat, 24 February 2018 at 6:32 PM

Splitting the light and background allows for more control, for example below the background contrast has been increased to bring out the cloud detail whilst having a high light level

image.png



infinity10 ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 12:42 AM

I simply use the Background node, I'll put a screen capture in a while - got to get to the other Posering machine first.

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infinity10 ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 1:27 AM

infinity10 posted at 3:23PM Sun, 25 February 2018 - #4325059

I simply use the Background node, I'll put a screen capture in a while - got to get to the other Posering machine first.

OK - here is an example of how I used an HDRi in my old scene:

Screenshot (9)x.jpg

I used a 5MB (considered small) HDR file from Dorsch. I plugged it into the background node ( this is not the Contruct, but the Poser background node, accessible from the Material Room). I used a node setup which is similar to what one would use for Cycles Surface and Physical-Based Rendering Surface.

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infinity10 ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 1:52 AM · edited Sun, 25 February 2018 at 1:53 AM

Here are my renders with zero scene lights - all illumination comes from the background node with HDRi

GPU version

Hdri_backgroundNodeGPUrender.jpg

CPU version

Hdri_backgroundNodeCPUrender.jpg

I must not save as PNG because the background node is interpreted as transparent in PNG format. I must save in JPG mode.

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estherau ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 5:16 AM · edited Sun, 25 February 2018 at 5:17 AM

This works best I think CLICK IT IS snarly's EZ dome - good if you own spherical HDRI images.

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bopperthijs ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 5:11 PM · edited Sun, 25 February 2018 at 5:12 PM

And nowadays EZdome has a shadowcatcher!

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Boni ( ) posted Sun, 25 February 2018 at 5:51 PM

Great information for every one. This will be very helpful.

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EClark1894 ( ) posted Thu, 07 November 2019 at 9:28 PM
EClark1894 ( ) posted Thu, 07 November 2019 at 9:35 PM

I bumped this because whether you use the Environment Texture node or Snarly or BB's EZ Dome, you will need to get an HDRI image to use. And the easiest place to do that is to visit the Lights and Camera category at my Poser Content Directory. Look under HDRI Images for Free and Commercial sites.

BTW, HDRI Haven is pretty much all free.


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willdial ( ) posted Fri, 08 November 2019 at 6:41 PM

EZ Dome is not a good option with HDR files. The dome is a mesh light that projects the basic image. HDRI contain luminosity information that mesh lights do not read. Unbiased rendering engines like Octane, Iray, LuxRender, and Cycles use an "Environment" setup to properly project HDRI files. Superfly uses the Background node for the Environment.

The following images used HDRI Haven's Sunny Vondelpark HDRI

Dome

HDRI Superfly.jpg

Background

HDRI Background.jpg

The Background is able to project the HDRI's sunlight and the Dome is not able to fully project the light. Dome objects like EZ Dome work in Firefly because there is no "Environment" built-in the rendering engine.


an0malaus ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 4:24 AM

I can't post images on this forum any more. No idea why. The upload dots circulate and then nothing happens. Any clues. Worked for me yesterday.



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3D-Mobster ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 4:59 AM

I would do as infinity10 have suggested as well.

Very important though, which other might have mentioned or you are already aware of, is to remember to hide the default background in Poser, it will block the light and increase render times.

Now if they would just add so you could rotate it, increase the strength of the HDRI and see it in the scene that would be great as well.


bagginsbill ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 5:46 AM

willdial posted at 6:44AM Sat, 09 November 2019 - #4369590

EZ Dome is not a good option with HDR files. The dome is a mesh light that projects the basic image. HDRI contain luminosity information that mesh lights do not read.

This is totally incorrect. Props do emit HDR light values from HDR images. EZ Dome uses two copies of my EnvSphere to combine the HDR and LDR images provided in sIBL sets, which is more than you can do with the built-in environment of SuperFly.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 6:17 AM

3D-Mobster posted at 7:15AM Sat, 09 November 2019 - #4369620

Now if they would just add so you could rotate it, increase the strength of the HDRI and see it in the scene that would be great as well.

Which is EXACTLY what the EnvSphere or EZDome do. This is mind boggling. I've been showing how to use HDRI with my EnvSphere for almost ten years. I invented the EnvSphere SPECIFICALLY to make it easy and powerful to use HDRI in Poser. How could you not know this?


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willdial ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 7:36 AM

bagginsbill posted at 6:29AM Sat, 09 November 2019 - #4369623

willdial posted at 6:44AM Sat, 09 November 2019 - #4369590

EZ Dome is not a good option with HDR files. The dome is a mesh light that projects the basic image. HDRI contain luminosity information that mesh lights do not read.

This is totally incorrect. Props do emit HDR light values from HDR images. EZ Dome uses two copies of my EnvSphere to combine the HDR and LDR images provided in sIBL sets, which is more than you can do with the built-in environment of SuperFly.

Then why doesn't the Dome object project the HDR light exactly like the Background?


willdial ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 7:54 AM

HDRI files can be rotated in the Background with a mapping node. VinceBagna created a shader with the texture and mapping nodes. It's in his SuperShader pack here in the marketplace.


willdial ( ) posted Sat, 09 November 2019 at 7:21 PM · edited Sat, 09 November 2019 at 7:28 PM

For those of you who are interested,

An HDRI file is a 32 bit image that contains Exposure Values like those from a camera. The Background node is able to utilize those Exposure Values.

Here is a list of HDRI Cycles tutorials that I found.

https://hdrmaps.com/blog/blender-hdri-setup/

https://www.maketecheasier.com/hdr-environment-lighting/

https://www.creativeshrimp.com/hdr-lighting-in-blender-part-5.html

https://meshlogic.github.io/posts/blender/rendering/nodes-correct-hdri/

They all use the same technique. VinceBanga's SuperShaders setups same technique for Poser.

Not all HDRI files are created the same. Some contain more exposure values than others. Also, HDRI lighting is not the easiest to master but they can provide a high quality light source.

The following render was created with only an HDRI file in the Background node as the light source. MelinaStudio.jpg


ghostship2 ( ) posted Sun, 10 November 2019 at 9:21 AM

a couple of things: 1) Yes, using the background node gets you proper highlights and shadows from the HDRI but at the cost of an unstable rendering situation. lighting the scene with the background and rendering with a GPU can crash your GPU. It's very finicky and does not like being rotated and the render has to go all the way through or your next render WILL crash the GPU. 2) you can simulate the sunlight in those HDRI's by using an infinite light at about %300. 3) You do not need a giant HDRI at 4000 pixels if you use focal blur correctly. Here is an image using BB's Envirosphere and 1 inf. light as sun. Keeping It Real.jpg

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ghostship2 ( ) posted Sun, 10 November 2019 at 9:27 AM

Also: if the HDRI is low contrast it does not make a difference if you tun it on a dome or from the background the results will look identical.

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willdial ( ) posted Sun, 10 November 2019 at 12:24 PM

Poser crashing with an HDRI while rendering with the GPU is a known bug that Smith Micro didn't fix.


ghostship2 ( ) posted Sun, 10 November 2019 at 2:48 PM

willdial posted at 1:47PM Sun, 10 November 2019 - #4369738

Poser crashing with an HDRI while rendering with the GPU is a known bug that Smith Micro didn't fix.

That is why I don't bother with it. Besides I get the same results with my own lighting. Sunlight render.jpg

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willdial ( ) posted Sun, 10 November 2019 at 7:57 PM

It's not really HDRI lighting if you have to use an Infinite Light as your main light source.

We have do things like this to get around bugs and missing features. We are still waiting for a proper Shadow Catcher.


ironsoul ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 10:26 AM · edited Mon, 11 November 2019 at 10:27 AM

Possibly the problem is with the HDR format and how it it used. When I load an exr format file into Krita its taken a floating point which seems to assume a value between 0 and 1. When I load a HDR map from HDR Haven and hover over a bright spot the value is many thousands which is well outside these limits. This would account for the higher ev range in renders that use these maps. I believe this links with a post BB did sometime ago with Firefly, I can't remember the exact post but it involved a render of a motor cycle, maybe this rings a bell with someone.



ironsoul ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 10:33 AM · edited Mon, 11 November 2019 at 10:42 AM

This render was achieved using HDR lighting (BBs environment sphere + hdr haven map) only with no additional lighting. Contrast was applied to the HDR map to reduce the ev range to give a more photographic appearance

image.png



ghostship2 ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 10:59 AM

@ironsoul Just curious as to what the Diffuse BSDF does in your dome shader? It was my impression that the dome should be pure light emitter and not cast or except shadows and should not reflect any light back into the scene.

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ironsoul ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 1:40 PM

@ghostship Set-up below. Based on some old RuntimeDNA posts, missing some lightpath logic which I keep meaning to put back in.

image.png



ghostship2 ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 2:33 PM

@Ironsoul

I tried this out and got tons of extra noise from the background due to the diffuse portion of the shader. I still don't see the purpose of the diffuse part of it. Can you explain?

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ironsoul ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 3:32 PM

@ghostship

The Lightpath logic forces the render engine to use the diffuse component rather than the emitter when rendering the background. This allows the a certain amount of seperation between the background intensity and the emitter intensity. This is useful if the emitter intensity needs to be increased but you don't want the background to blow out.

It is possible to get noise when using high contrast HDR maps. If using the exact settings above the Light Control contrast would be best set to zero.



ghostship2 ( ) posted Mon, 11 November 2019 at 5:55 PM

what HDR are you using for this image with the armor?

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 12 November 2019 at 8:31 AM

The separation of paths (and therefore parameters) for lighting vs. camera is desirable, but NOT with a Diffuse node. Both should be emitters.


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ironsoul ( ) posted Tue, 12 November 2019 at 11:05 AM

Ah, I've been misunderstanding what ghostship was asking and would also explain the fireflies ghostship was gettiing, I must have broke the shader tree at some point in the past. Thanks to both of you for the help. Of course this give me even greater scope to abuse the lighting set-up in Poser :)



DreamWeaver_Designs ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2019 at 5:09 PM

Can someone please explain how to just the HDRI's with EZDome? I have gone through the user guide but can not see any thing about how to do this. Thanks


ghostship2 ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2019 at 11:14 PM

dreamweever posted at 10:10PM Sat, 23 November 2019 - #4371109

Can someone please explain how to just the HDRI's with EZDome? I have gone through the user guide but can not see any thing about how to do this. Thanks

I use BB's Envirosphere because I'm a simpleton but EZDome is just two Envirospheres, one inside the other. One provides the light and the other (on the inside) provides something for your stuff to reflect and as background. I set up the Envirosphere like this below. Dome brightness is set by the ambient amount. dome.jpg

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DreamWeaver_Designs ( ) posted Sun, 24 November 2019 at 1:23 AM

ghostship2 posted at 8:21PM Sun, 24 November 2019 - #4371125

dreamweever posted at 10:10PM Sat, 23 November 2019 - #4371109

Can someone please explain how to just the HDRI's with EZDome? I have gone through the user guide but can not see any thing about how to do this. Thanks

I use BB's Envirosphere because I'm a simpleton but EZDome is just two Envirospheres, one inside the other. One provides the light and the other (on the inside) provides something for your stuff to reflect and as background. I set up the Envirosphere like this below. Dome brightness is set by the ambient amount. dome.jpg

Thanks but I really need the step by steps for EZDome.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sun, 24 November 2019 at 10:34 AM

If you download EZDome, it comes with an UserGuide if I remember right.


Anim8dtoon ( ) posted Tue, 26 November 2019 at 4:05 PM
Forum Moderator

I'm glad to see a discussion on HDRI lighting and so on. My question is this: how can one get shadows on the ground in a scene that's lit by a HDRI? Not having the figure or figures cast shadows on the ground takes away from the realism of the scene. TIA for your input on this!


Anim8dtoon ( ) posted Tue, 26 November 2019 at 4:33 PM · edited Tue, 26 November 2019 at 4:34 PM
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Here's an image rendered in DS using HDRI lighting; you can see that the figure is casting her shadow on the ground in the scene. I'd like to know how to get my figure or figures to cast shadows like that. Thanks for your help in advance!

Screen Shot 2019-11-26 at 4.17.29 PM.png


RAMWorks ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 4:20 PM

ironsoul posted at 2:04PM Mon, 22 June 2020 - #4325053

Not saying this is for everyone as not very scientific but I use the set-up below for Superfly. Hide construct, add BB's envsphere. Download image from HDRI Haven - eg Waterbuck trail. Set-up nodes below and add HDR image into EnvironmentTexture node. Set emission strength to 1 and Bright/Contrast levels to zero (both nodes). Turn off all lights and try test render. If too dark then increase Emission to get approx levels ( normally in range 1- 5) and then use the Bright/Contrast to set contrast (normally in range 0 - 0.5 range). There is a seperate channel for lighting and background image and then basically operate in chimp mode until happy. I suggest trying out several hdr images to see which works best with the materials/atmosphere you want to create. From a post at RDNA but I forgot who it came from so apologies for no credit.

image.png

IS there a way to set up this for a preview so I can see what's going on or is there another path I should investigate? Finding that same issue, the HDRI map is pretty blurry. Blurry HDRI Map.png

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hborre ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 4:32 PM

What does it look like when you render? Usually, HDRIs do not preview very well.


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 4:46 PM

Looking at your posted image from Ironsoul, there was a question about that diffuse node in the arrangement. BB has dispelled that it is not something you want in the setup. Read the rest of this thread.


RAMWorks ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 6:15 PM

Hmmm, well when I deleted the diffuse node the scene renders black so I don't think that's it!

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RAMWorks ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 6:21 PM

OK, simplified the entire thing and just used an Environmental Surface node by itself and got this...

Still not as crisp as I'd like but allot better!

HDRI Simple.png

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hborre ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 6:33 PM

Which HDRI resolution did you use? The higher, the better, however, this is within reasonable limits to your system. I use anything between 2 to 4k, 4k being my absolute highest. If the image is sharp, you will see it. Are you using additional lights in your scene? And the white bodysuit is too white, the color needs to be dialed back.


RAMWorks ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 7:09 PM

I believe MOST of my HDR's are 4K.

By the way, is there a way to plug in an IBL file?

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randym77 ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 7:13 PM

I see there's a new product in the RMP that offers HDRIs for use in Poser. From the description:

"Each HDRI is available in 16, 8, 4, and 2K resolution. The 16K HDRI is very useful if you want to render it both as a light emitter and a background. As the image is wrapped around a sphere, more resolution is needed than a flat background image in order to preserve detail. With a 16K HDRI you will be able to retain a sharp and clear background even for high resolution render. However, it is somewhat taxing on graphics resources, so if you are rendering a smaller image, use a narrow depth of field, or only need it for the lighting, the 4K or even 2K is more than sufficient, the lighting quality will be pretty much the same."

I've played around a little with the envirosphere and EZ-dome, but I have a hard time finding suitable images for them.


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 7:37 PM

I have fashioned high-quality LDRs into HDRIs using free 3rd party software and used them in EZ-Dome. They are not the same but they do give me acceptable results.

@RAMWolff: Snarly's EZ-Dome uses sIBL. IBL, I believe, is associated with just the lights. But why bother with that when you can get better lighting with HDRI.


RAMWorks ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 7:49 PM

Well this one set I downloaded included an IBL file to plug in. Just curious!

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hborre ( ) posted Mon, 22 June 2020 at 7:58 PM

I checked the manual and you would definitely use it on your light setup, that would be IDL in the properties panel. If you are using Firefly rendering this could work with AO turned on.


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