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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2021 Sep 17 8:28 pm)


Subject: Antonia - Opinions?


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:18 AM · edited Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:36 PM
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Antonia-20081026.jpg

Some of you might seen her in my gallery. Antonia is an original human model I've been working on - with interruptions - for the last three years or so. The initial motivation was probably my frustration with the Poser characters available at the time. This made me turn to ZBrush and then Wings3D and experiment with character modeling.

Long story short - I think the geometry is close to being finished. She's rigged for Poser, although there's still a lot of fine-tuning to be done on the joint setups. Once I've finished the teeth and maybe done some more small fixes, I'll UV-map her and... well, what exactly?

See, the thing is, I'd be more than happy for people to have her, make lovely pictures and create content for her, some of which I might be able to use. But I have no ambitions to be a merchant, let alone invest all the hard work that would turn her into a product that might have the slightest chance to compete with the Victorias of this world. Actually, if Victoria 4 had been around in late 2005, I might have just bought her and never had the experience of 'rolling my own'.

Now, this is where - possibly - you guys come in. I can see myself doing the UV map and finishing the rigging as best I can, then put her up somewhere on the web as one of a million free item. If I'm lucky, maybe people will like her and make additional content for her. But, if some of the talented people on here take a liking to her, then maybe - just maybe - we could work together and make her really awesome.

Anyway, this thread is for critiques, comments, suggestions, offers of collaborations, strategical advice and just plain "Gimme, gimme!!!" shouts.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:21 AM
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Antonia-Portrait-20081022.jpg

Here's a closer view of her face. The hair is by Kozaburo, by the way, and the pearls are a free item by one UweG. Everything else by yours truly.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:30 AM
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Antonia-Portrait-20081023-loRes.png

And the lo-res a.k.a. original version. I'm making Antonia in Wings3D and subdivide once for Poser export. The original has around 9600 and the standard Poser version a bit more than 38000 polygons. I had to turn ambient occlusion off for this render because I'm still using Poser 6 which is prone to produce artifacts if things aren't very, very smooth.

I'm using a not quite up-to-date version of BagginsBill's upcoming VSS skin shader, by the way. She has no texture except for the eyes and the transmapped lashes and brows.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


jonnybode ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:34 AM · edited Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:38 AM

Ok here goes!

WOW!  :-)

I really like the head/face,  the body looks good also but the face is outstanding, well done on that part.

The body looks pretty natural but needs maybe a bit more definition where the wrist meets the hand.

If you make it available I definitily get the model, for free or cash (im a sucker for unique models).

Regards / Jonny



odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:34 AM
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Antonia-810.wings.jpg

Here's a screenshot out of Wings3D, showing the mesh and grouping.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:43 AM

Antonia head.jpg

The face looks great, lots of character.  There are a few things I would do differently (will do differently, as I'm working on a similar project although not intended for Poser) but many things about your model that are great.  I'd like to see a wireframe and also a full body view from front and back.  Here's some visual feedback attached, and of course I'm certainly no expert.

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pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:43 AM · edited Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:45 AM

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Antonia torso.jpg

and.

edit:  The weakest thing about your model is the navel, that really looks strange.  Everything else is anatomically OK, although I think the areolae are bulging kind of a lot - not impossible to find in the real world but imo very unusual.

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My Freebies (alt)


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:45 AM
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Screenshot-Wings 3D - Antonia-810.wings*.png

And the mesh for the face.

jonnybode:  Thanks! I'm glad you like her. Good catch, by the way. The wrist are one of the areas I'm not really happy with yet.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:47 AM

I'd also like to see how you modeled the latissimus, where it goes from the back to the arm pit.  It's something that pretty tough to model and I can't think of any Poser character models that really have it done right (no offense to anybody).

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:51 AM

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Antonia wire.jpg

yeah you did a good job with the arm pit, that's not quite the way I've done it but it's good.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:53 AM

The jawline on the head is very good also, better than I've got so far.  Great model!

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)


jonnybode ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:05 AM

I think this model looks way better then other newly released 100 000+ polygon characters, you made good use of your 38000 polygons (can one say that?).

Regards / Jonny



odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:10 AM
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Antonia-810-wings-back.png

And here's the wireframe from the back.

pjz99: Wow! Thanks for the in-depth critique. That's really very helpful. I've seen the model you're working on and am looking forward to watching your further progress.

I have to admit I've neglected the navel for a long time. And I'm kind of fond of the bulgy areolae, but I guess it's time to say goodbye to them. I can always bring them back as morphs.

More renders coming up. In the meantime, excuse me while I look up anatomical terms in English. :)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:20 AM · edited Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:20 AM

re: the areolae, they're not wrong, they're just unusual.  If you like them, it's your model :)

The wireframe of the back looks good, although you might want to bevel some of the edges in the back of the knee to get a good hard crease there when the knee bends.

edit: now that I think of it, same goes for the inner elbow

My Freebies (main)

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odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:23 AM
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jonnybode: I like to think of it as making good use of 9600 polygons. ;) It's too bad really that Poser doesn't support Catmull-Clarke subdivision or I could just import her as is and do any finer details via displacement maps.

One thing I find really awesome about working as low-poly as possible is that once you get the topology just right, changes in shape are really easy. Then again, getting the topology right is a major headache. :D

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


dyret ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:24 AM

The navel could maybe use a little work. But great model. Get her some clothes!


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:32 AM
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pjz99: Good idea with the creases. I'll try that when I get back to working on the joints.

No, I think it definitely makes more sense to give her flat areolae by default and add a morph to make them bulgy, than the other way round.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:41 AM
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Antonia-20081026-full-front.jpg

Here's a full frontal in Poser.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


richardson ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:41 AM

You won't need a  "Franka Potente" profile morph...;D


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:48 AM
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richardson: Ha! So you remember that, do you? Even better: when I do make morphs or her, I won't have to worry about ZBrush choking on badly placed poles. :P

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:49 AM
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dyret: Sadly, I suck at modeling clothes. That's why I'm looking for volunteers. ;)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


originalkitten ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:52 AM

She is gorgeous! Most impressive :O)

"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:56 AM
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Antonia-20081026-full-back.jpg

..and the back.

That's it for now with the images, unless there are any special requests. I'll work on the navel and some other details that have been mentioned and post updates when I'm done.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


jonnybode ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 7:26 AM

Hi again!

I saw that Phil C's WW2  now has support for the free character "K", Maybe you can ask him if he could support this character too?
Or if maybe the creator of Crossdresser?

That would solve a part of the clothing issue, also Dimension 3D has a program called second skin (not second skin textures) that makes good bases for pants and sweaters.

Unfortunately my own modelling skills are limited.

Regards / Jonny



nyguy ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 7:33 AM

My clothing modeling skills are very limited, though I could take a crack at it. Just getting the basic shape of the figure is the easy part.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 7:50 AM

In a pure aesthetics sense, you may want to bring in the waist and the rib cage at the back side a little bit, it's a bit too straight although you can certainly find people shaped like that.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)


Marque ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 8:08 AM

Well I'm impressed. Not only with the great model, excellent job btw, but also with the great critique of her. Gives me hope for when I try.  I'm ready for her when you kick her out of the nest.
8^)


TheOwl ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 10:14 AM

Her natural face is what I want in this. Can you make do a pose so we can see how it looks like when limbs bend?

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!


momodot ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 10:36 AM

Utterly beautiful!



SSAfam1 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 11:28 AM

She's lovely. :)


SSAfam1 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 11:39 AM · edited Mon, 27 October 2008 at 11:43 AM

Quote - dyret: Sadly, I suck at modeling clothes. That's why I'm looking for volunteers. ;)

Really? I'd think modelling clothes would be a walk in the park for someone who made such a beautiful figure such as Antonia.


PapaBlueMarlin ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 2:33 PM

I think she looks pretty good.



pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 2:43 PM

Looking again at how you have the bodyparts grouped, I am pretty sure this chest/abdomen border is going to give you real problems when bending, due to the stair step line of edges on the border.  IMO you're going to have much smoother bending there if you can manage to have a line of edges follow the border, instead of going across it diagonally like you have now.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)


PapaBlueMarlin ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 3:56 PM

Does she have morphs yet?



momodot ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 4:49 PM

Are you happy with the rigging? I wonder if you could get phantom3D to collaborate since he is doing neat stuff with rigging. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2752937&page=1



flyerx ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:11 PM

Nice model. Since you want people to work on it why don't you put it up on a site, setup a version control system and make people submit changes. That way you do not have to individually keep track of everyone doing work on the model.

good luck,


kirwyn ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:21 PM

Excellent Work!


Marque ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 6:20 PM

I may give it a shot on clothes too. Love the face.


Miss Nancy ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 8:52 PM

it looks very good to me.  can ya post a close-up of the crotch and inside of mouth,
in case the others are too embarrassed to ask?



SSAfam1 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 8:56 PM

Quote - it looks very good to me.  can ya post a close-up of the crotch and inside of mouth,
in case the others are too embarrassed to ask?

:laugh:


pjz99 ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 9:18 PM
Starkdog ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 9:56 PM

Awesome model!!!  It is trully amazing what can be done with few polys.  I can't wait to see how she does when posed.  I did have some generic pants, shirt, dress base meshes that I am re-building, and I would try to make some things for her to wear.  -Starkdog 


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 5:24 AM
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Antonia-810-inner-mouth.jpg

Miss Nancy: The inner mouth is pretty much a work in progress at this stage. I've started to separate and shape the teeth, but there's no tongue yet.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 5:39 AM
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jonnybode: yep, once she's out and about and I see that she's being used, I'll definitely contact Phil C to see if he's interested. Incidentally, I'll be happy to try my hand at some clothes or convert existing ones. It's just not a priority right now, as there are so many other things to work on.

pjz99: That's actually the border between the collar and the chest you're looking at. She's got a lot of collar because anything that follows the arm movement has to be in the parent of the 'shoulder' (Poser for upper arm). I'm by no means an expert on rigging, but as far as I understand, the shape of the actual border between groups is not so important, as long as one gets the angles and falloff zones right.

PapaBlueMarlin: Nope, no morphs yet. I have to figure out which program to use for those, anyway. If I make them in Wings3D, which would be nice as I'm used to it's interface now, I'll have to come up with a clever way to restore the original vertex numbering because of the way WIngs handles symmetry. That shouldn't be too hard, but that's essentially the reason I haven't done any morphs yet. That script has to be written first.

momodot: Oh, if I could get phantom3D interested in rigging her, that would be phantastic. But he seems to have a lot on his plate at the moment, so I wouldn't dream of asking.

flyerx: Yep, I'll do that as soon as I find a free hosting site that supports Mercurial (or git, if there's no way around it) and allows that kind of content.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 5:57 AM
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Antonia-crotch-wings.png

Here's the requested crotch shot. Poser render coming up.

Explicit enough?

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 6:13 AM
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Antonia-crotch-render.jpg

And here's the render. I had a quick check of the TOS, and apparently I can still post genitals, just as long as they don't touch anything, right?

Just to be save, I clicked all the available advisories.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Diogenes ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 6:54 AM

Hi odf, Antonia's looking great, good job with the topology,  low poly is the most difficult it seems to me, but better in the long run.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 7:26 AM
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Antonia-contrapost.jpg

Here's a quick and dirty contrapost, just to show that she can, to some extend, pose. But as I said, the joint setup is very basic. What's more, certain parts that used to bend nicely don't anymore because I made changes in the geometry and haven't yet adjusted the setup accordingly.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


momodot ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 8:51 AM

Really really nice!



Diogenes ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 11:45 AM

Quote - Here's a quick and dirty contrapost, just to show that she can, to some extend, pose. But as I said, the joint setup is very basic. What's more, certain parts that used to bend nicely don't anymore because I made changes in the geometry and haven't yet adjusted the setup accordingly.

You know I have found that basic straight forward rigging placed properly is usualy the best. I've toyed with all sorts of complicated rigging scemes and have found that the solutions that really worked were all simple basic changes. She looks very good to me so I'd stick with this rigging and make small changes in placement and settings till you're happy. But the shoulders look great to me, and that's quite an accomplishment, shoulders are very hard.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 28 October 2008 at 11:54 AM · edited Tue, 28 October 2008 at 11:54 AM

Excellent work! Gimme.

This is a little bit off-topic, but I just have to say you are a master of light and shadow. I know how the VSS shader works (after all, I wrote it) but I'm still dazzled by how good she looks despite having no skin color map.

I wonder if it would be good to make this a "poster child" for a 100% (or nearly 100%) procedural human shader.

I could do a lot more detailed stuff with just a few masks. No need to do a high-res texture. I just need a few control masks for the figure, and then I'd drive all the effects from that.

Lip mask - to color the lips and possibly apply makeup
Oil mask - to produce variation in specular effect, and also to control the application of procedural pores (did that with Apollo) so when you zoom in to the face you see tiny skin details.
Sunshine mask - to produce subtle darkening on surfaces that face the sun for color variation (palms and inside of arms, armpits, inside of thighs, are generally lighter than other areas). This mask would also control production of freckles.

etc.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


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