Hi everyone - if anyone can help with this, I would greatly appreciate any advice. 

I need to create a gyroscope (pictured above), I've played around with motion and constraints, but have not had much luck.

The outer ring is the support ring with no movement. It is connected to the middle ring, which rotates on a Y axis. The problem comes with the connectors that attach the middle ring to the inner ring rotating on the X axis. I can't get the connectors to follow both rings so they appear attached.     

Thanks again for any help!!!

I dunno the answer. maybe gimbal lock is involved. anyway, it would be instructive to see it animated, as it appears the inner ring is rotating in the carrara z-axis.

I guess those more experienced with gyroscopes may understand your problems.

For me , I need more details (sketches) of the workings and the particular problem.

My preliminary response is that none of the parts should be actually connected as such.(Even if they look so)  Thus motion settings of one would be not effecting the other--is that not the principle?

bwtr

Attached Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc8BikZcrDw

bwtr, I did set it up without the parts connected, but I can't get them to move the way I want.  Here is an animation, I set the connectors to glow green so you can see them better Miss Nancy. 

not bad! I tried to step-frame it in safari, but couldn't do it. however, it's as ya said. the green things hafta move with the outside of the inner ring and the control slot in the middle ring. it might be easy to solve if the connector doesn't hafta slide around the outside of the inner ring. e.g. if the inner ring rotates about its own centre, in addition to its rotation on the carrara x-axis.

The way that vid works does not look correct to me anyway.

See if you can check out a proper/better design to work on may help.

bwtr

It would be fine if I could link the supports to interact with both rings, so I may just have to go with a plugin. 

Thanks anyway :)

http://www.gyroscope.com/images/lecture/manual.pdf

Have a look/download this.

Perhaps you will see why that vid one did not look right to me.

bwtr

ok, I see what you mean :)  I guess I shouldn't use the term Gyroscope - my chair in the middle will not be spinning wildly (unless I lose my mind doing this - hehe). I will now call it my "spinning ring contraption". I still haven't figured anything out - Carrara doesn't like it when I combine modifiers.  

To support multiple contraints or multiple independent motions on objects I've found that adding extra groups helps, you can add one constraint to the object and one to the group.

For example, for the unicycle trick mentioned in the last post I used separate groups to allow me to have 2 centres of rotation, one for it in the air and one when it hits the ground, a wobble motion, a slow updown motion linked to the progress along the wire and a motion path for the falling.

Otherwose you might have to resort to a plugin such as the Digital Carvers Guild cognito plugin, again you will need to use groups to have your spinning things rotating in different directions. There's a free download to experiment with.

I have just made a very rough gyro movie. All parts rotate. If you email me at  [brimar@jbr.com.au](mailto:brimar@jbr.com.au) I will send the .car file to you in a zip.

It's extremely simple!

bwtr

Do you have a connector from the inner ring to the other ring? I'm not having a problem rotating the rings, just the connectors that are between the rings.

Yes I have. As I said, it's a bit rough. Time needs to be spent in accurate locations/relationships but I think there is enough information to take it further. Hope so anyway.

bwtr

NO!  I take it back. I thought I had it .

Back to the drawing board.  Sorry!

bwtr

I know - it's frustrating - it seems like it would be easy - if I wasn't needing the details, I would just fake it, but this project has to have the details.

Attached Link: Make a gyro with spin modifiers

It is easy. I think you'll find what you need at the link above. Mark

That"s a nice gyro Mark - thanks for the info.  As bwtr helped me discover, my machine isn't quite like that. My rings are reversed because of the chair needing to be stabalized in the middle. Therefore, the supports between the inner and middle ring need to rotate and slide based on the motion of both rings.

I uploaded another video with more light so you can see the machine better. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R56UBlQ6qs

Watch where the two inner ring connect - the slider on the left would move in a circlular motion just in the back left area, and the right slider would need to move in a circular motion in the front right area. 

I'm still trying groupings, but it hasn't worked out yet.

Cool machine. Now I see. I thought you didn't want the connecter to slide but you actually DO want them to slide. I see a way to work this out with spin behaviours but I'm on a deadline right now and can't break. I'll put it together this evening. It does involve a little digital slight-of-hand but is very do-able. Mark

Thanks Mark - I appreciate your help :)   I did come close with spin behaviors, but I may need to add internal rings for additional tracking purposes. I'll let you know if I come up with anything - here is my "close" attempt. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bSku18ejOo

Mark.  That attached link seems to be jambing up my computer???

I wont work on a solution today--look forward to your response.

Brian

bwtr

Well I made a "standard" gyroscope today. And all the rotations in the movie version all work as they should.

I know this is not the answer to the needs you have but thanks anyway to this point for the learning it has given me.

Look forward to Marks solution

bwtr

Nice gyroscope bwtr - I definately have a better grasp on how to group modifiers like AndyClon suggested, and hopefully Mark can dazzle us with his carrara magic :)  

There is an easy way to do this but I found a Carrara bug in the process that prevents it from being easy! I'm reporting it. It just about drove me insane last night until I realized it wasn't actually me, it was the program! So, now to play around with a work-around...

I thought it would be easy too - hopefully it's a bug they will fix :)  I appreciate your help!

The attached screen shot shows my assembly layout. I hope it is of some use to someone.

bwtr

Attached Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdMCH1rdgaE

Ok, before we all drive ourselves crazy, I decided to make some changes. Since this is an "alien" machine, I decided to make the inner ring stationary, remove the supports to the chair and make it 'float' in the machine. The inner ring will also have tubes running from the ports in the ring to the person in the chair. 

I figure, if I want to add some other rotations, I'll just make sure the camera isn't in view of the connectors. 

I appreciate your efforts Mark, bwtr, and AndyCLon. At least we know there is a bug in Carrara as Mark pointed out. 

I'll post a render of the machine once it has been completed and textured. :)

How to plot a motion path? Is that a way that Mark might help with?

If you reduced your frames per second and made it a short movie you  could do key frames movements manually maybe.

bwtr

I thought about that, but my animation is going to be over 4 minutes @ 24 fps. Not that the machine will appear in every scene, but I decided I need to move on  - I have to finish by the end of June, so I have a lot of rendering to do :)