I've been playing around with your methods Loganarts and come up with this. I'd appreciate any criticism you can give :o) I don't think the poly flow is too bad, but I wonder whether the mesh is a bit dense for this stage of the model? I'd be interested in your comments about pole numbers/placement too.

Cheers - Baz

Nice lookin head Baz. Good contour and flow. ANd you mean sparce...not dense :) But now is a ood time to be planning where they will go, as you add detail to the mesh.

Heyas Baz, I just woke up and saw ur modeling. Its trully great to see that u got it:) the structure is very well done. I specially liked the jaw structure and the way u did ther flow of the neck muscle coming from the back of the ear. I have a comment about the zigomathic bone( or the apple of the face) but im gonna make a paint over at work soon for ya. talk to ya soon:) cheers loggie

Hey Baz, heres a pic of my current wip im doin here at work for fun. the areas highlighted in red are the zigomathic structure that separates the fat and skin areas of the check responsable for the laughter and the bones. I believe its important to have very distinct areas of skin, muscle fat and bones in the face so u can manipulate them better when creating your morphs set or ur bones deformation.. thats it. cheers mate loggie

Thanks for the comments folks! EA, no I meant dense, I have a tendency to add too many edges too early and make my life difficult lol! Pleased that you don't think I've mde that mistake on this one :o) Loggie, I might be being a bit stupid, if so sorry! Are your comments a recommendation for continuing the model or have I made some error in the zigomathic structure? If I have I don't know where I've gone wrong. Could you show on my model? If you're talking about the next stage of modelling then I think I get it! :o) Thanks for the input! - Cheers - Baz

By the way Loggie, that's another cool model!

Hey, cool stuff. My buddy was probably making a suggestion for changing what you've already done. Looking at your model, it seems as though the area in question is as clearly defined as Logan has it. Perhaps seeing your mesh in a smooth shaded version will change our perspective on it.

Thanks for the suggestion Teyon! This is smoothed twice and then wires hidden.

Cheers - Baz

Heyas Baz, Just like Teyon said (HEY MATE!!!!!!!!) it just a matter of changing a bit more ur model. As u can notice in ur shaded view, the zigomathic bone is going up arond the eye and has no end near the nose. if u isolate the bone structure via loops in ur WIP u gonna have a bone structure in that area completelly defined and ready to receive muscles and fat over it. again, its a great model u have so far. cheers loggie

Ah! now I get it, thanks a lot for your help :o) Baz

Is this better?

This is so cool loggie! I've been playing some more (when I should have been working!) and this model already has more life in it than anything I've made before, thankyou sooooo much! - Baz

Yup, you're getting there for sure.

Hey Baz, loggie is referring to the zygomatic bone, and I actually prefer to cross over the loops over the bridge of the nose/nasal region myself. It helps a lot with expressions. Any muscle movement of the cheeks no matter how slight will have an effect on the softer bits of the nasal region anyway so... I'm down with that :) Prolly the next task would be to get enough polys in the nose area to begin to shape the wing of your nose. Here's a rather odd expression I quickly sketched to demonstrate how your setup can help with this... Bone loops are the basis for your shape and muscle placement, I have a bad habit of skipping them over since I already know where to place them. Exactly like drawing or sculpting, I tend to whack down the volume then start detailing it from there. Again this is a bad habit...  You already have the basics down, now detail the heck out of it!

I'll be doing detailed illustrations from cadavers lying about my house...  ! To get that book project off the ground... Here're the Anterolateral Regions of the Head. Areas that are defined by the bone structure underneath. This kind of study is essential. My Grandfather was a doctor and he had this stuff down. Doesn't necessarily mean he could draw or sculpt it. This is just part of it... Study of proportions and facial diversity is paramount as well. Off topic here... And a shout out to the loggie, long time no hear man :) Been really busy, gotta catch you, Fred, and Nick online one of these really early mornings :) Nice work BTW on the new heads you've posted!!!

Cool. That means I'm not far off with the head I posted. Nice to know, thanks, Prime. I've often done this subconciously, I guess but now I know what to look for if ever I'm in doubt. wasn't such a bad idea to pop in here today....made me feel a bit better. Thanks again.

Cheers mates!, some really useful info there Prime thanks a lot! I know I've got a heck of a lot to learn but I'm getting really excited by this! I finally feel like my modelling is starting to improve :o) - Baz

Just thought I'd post my progress, still a lot to do! The ears and nose are a bit of a mess, but I'll get those fixed :o)

nice work Baz look forward to seeing this as it progresses. you've definatly got edge loops down mate. cheers stu

Thanks Stu! :o)

Getting there!

Well, the muscle loops are finished. It's not perfect by any means, but good enough for me at the moment lol! In particular the outside corner of the eyes isn't right. Maybe I'll tweak those a little more. Now on to the fun bit, adding some character!