Rottenham posted at 1:40 AM Tue, 8 October 2024 - #4490087

Let's face it. We lost tech when we lost the manufacturing industry. Not only are there no more tech books, there are no more bookstores.  "Push every button and see what happens" is the best school we have now. Forums like this were created so we can answer our own questions. We ourselves have become the QA Department.

I say, "A good craftsman works with the tools at hand."  :-)

Ah but when asking your customer base to pay more...perhaps actually give support would be a good idea and a way to encourage them to...pay more.

Rottenham posted at 6:35 PM Mon, 7 October 2024 - #4490080

DarkElegance posted at 4:36 PM Mon, 7 October 2024 - #4490079

Sorry, but with Daz "customer service and support" in the state it is (non-existent) It's not worth the upgrade nor the price hike.

.................................................

DAZ has two things. DAZ has the best catalog of 3D models around. And, DAZ has the best Iray rendering around. These things, hopefully, will not change. But marketing is running the place now, and marketing is about as non-tech as a discipline can get. I think we'll be able to work around their new scheme for now.

Meanwhile, never go near anything that requires a remote server (aka "Cloud"). It has long been known to be a security risk, in more ways than one. And if you're not a big Iray fan, like I am, iClone is not too bad.

I have to admit, you are right on the iray part. The models, well, they are the cornerstone of the human figure models for the most part.
But to rely on that, to ignore valid support tickets...really takes the shine off things.

gohanf22 posted at 8:06 AM Thu, 19 September 2024 - #2989288

...they are literally doing damage control on this WOKE infested model.  every single time someone mentions about if and when a g9 to g8 morph conversion tool is on the way or asking about it, they delete it.  im sorry but TRUTH HURTS.  g9 was pandering.  i will not ever use that model, but I will use the characters when they make a g9 to g8 conversion like many others are patiently waiting for.  sad part is, whoever makes one, they won't be able to sell it on daz cause they won't allow it.  oh well, guess they better make sure gen 10 with Daz 5 better be separate meshes again wont they?

I have to ask...how is a 3d model "Woke"?
And like @PanzerEmerald said, you must not have much experience with genesis.

The fact the model can be male and female is more than likely due to the fact of saving library space, versatility etc. Rather than any political slant.

If in your posts you are making notations like that, the "woke" part, that may be the reason for removal.
Politics really dont factor into it.

Sorry, but with Daz "customer service and support" in the state it is (non-existent) It's not worth the upgrade nor the price hike.

Just not worth it.

I have an eye package that according to the tech support thread, the issue I have, has been reported since 2018! Not fixed, Not usable.
I have VDB package that I provided screenshots of the issue (EVERYTHING in the scene comes out great, but the VDB looks like it was made in minecraft. Totally blocky and not usable) No reply, no fix, no anything. I can't use the packages.
I have repeatedly asked for help, nothing.
Ignored.

Now they want people to pay MORE for items? For “free” items that…really don't make up the difference?

I get my Daz+ when its on massive reduced sale. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

I understand some price increase due to "cost of living" but when I know the artists arent getting the lions share of it? Nah, Im not going to pay their staff to treat customers like crap.

ghosty12 posted at 6:55 AM Mon, 7 October 2024 - #4490051

Well Daz have just dropped a big bombshell over on their site. They just changed their entire sub structure, there is now Daz Base (which is free), Daz+ and Daz Premier. They have gone back to having two versions of Daz Studio, there will be Daz Studio free, and Daz Studio Premier an enhanced version only available via the Daz Premier subscription.

Also forgot it seems that there will be Premier sub 3D content, that by the sounds of it if you let your sub you lose access to that content as well.

And going by some of the comments on Daz's forums some are none to happy more so the changes in the subscription structure.

So they make it so you can't get a refund on what you already paid, then ask you to pay MORE on top of it?
Instead of having already paid Daz+ members pay the difference, they just gauge you twice?

I'm posting here as I am sure that thread on Daz will either get the posts removed or vanish completely.

But I have been taking full page screenshots...because, we know that posts will go "poof!" for daring to suggest daz is not pure perfection.

I'm paid up till 2025...and now they want me to double, heck triple pay?

No warning. No loyalty to customers that have already paid, nothing.
Great way to show appreciation for those loyal members…even after being treated like poo by mods.

I still have support tickets a year old…and cant get support, a reply, a refund on the items that don't work...and now they want more money?

SMH

zombietaggerung posted at 3:43 AM Mon, 16 September 2024 - #4489379

Glad to help :)

Now the only frustration is getting it! I have been trying to purchase it and for some reason, everytime It goes to the paypal pop up...it just cycles...

zombietaggerung posted at 9:58 PM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489351

This one is the best one I've seen: https://uzilite.gumroad.com/l/LNQpI It's for G3 but autofits fine to G8.

That is perfect!
Thank you! Oh and it is uzilite too!

OMG that looks similar to cinder spire ships!
Oh if someone made one of those....

Torquinox posted at 9:09 PM Wed, 21 August 2024 - #4488621

gohanf22 posted at 2:36 PM Wed, 21 August 2024 - #4488617

What is really irritating me is that they are pushing for people to buy these new Models that come out for gen 9 that are for certain IPs, like how is DAZ getting away with selling those?

Their big Star Trek and Dark Knight sets both got pulled. I've heard vendors say they get the bulk of their money for a product in the first week. So, if an item lasts a week in the store, I guess the vendor got paid for the items sold. Obviously, any store offers paid EL items for the money. It's a nudge-nudge-wink-wink thing.

Some vendors sell products that look infringing to me and it's under commercial license. And the store selling the products often doesn't seem to care. It's up to the copyright holder to say "Stop that!" Perhaps the copyright holder is busy? No idea. In any case, all that becomes Buyer Beware! 

I had noticed certain things going missing from the "new release" sections.

But I also know there are things available that are direct copies of IP materials.

They werent all released with big fan fair as they did with a certain space western, or marvel release, but they are definitely copies.

As for the artists, that is pretty sad to hear. As it cant be much they are making.
Ill say it again, I rather give 100% of my purchasing power to the artist directly.

I am so thankful to see I am not the only one on the “naughty” list at Daz forums.

DeeceyArt posted at 11:02 AM Thu, 15 August 2024 - #4488395

I don't see Genesis 9 as a "debacle" at all. Does it have issues? Yes, but so does any other figure out there. My main complaint about G9 is that they have now separated the high definition versions out from the base model.

And the bundle stacking and pricing is a great concern. The number of posts that people make about how cheaply they got stuff is pretty depressing. The more everyone looks for bargain basement prices, the less you will see content creators making things for figures, because it will no longer be worth the many hours that are put into making content.  "Biting the hand that feeds you" is a saying that comes to mind.

While pricing is getting steep, the one thing I dont really do is complain about the price of good items.
I know how much a good computer can suck from the energy bill from rendering…I don't want to think of how much it costs just in electricity, to work on sculpting, building, texturing, morphing….a set/figure/item.
I know that when I am running photoshop, Dazstudio(or which ever program I am twiddling in) etc...there is a rather pronounce spike in my daily usage.
So for those creating the items we use as a matter of appreciation and convenience(yes, it is convenient for us to buy an outfit rather than each time making each item), it must cost quite abit to do make.
I may have to wait for a sale, but that is just the way of it at this point.
I though, I would rather give the money directly to the artists that makes the lovely sets though. Because I doubt they are getting 100% of what I pay daz for.

Torquinox posted at 8:56 AM Sat, 10 August 2024 - #4488271

@DarkElegance Thank you :) I should probably read that article.

There are a few articles out on it. It's due to the fact that genAI gets its “materials” from the web. What is posted, to "learn" from. But as the web gets saturated with AI gen images and text, it starts “learning” from that genAI material. Causing issues with the outputs. It literally is “eating itself”. (I believe popular mechanic has an article on the text AI and it's starting to have issues in regard to this)

They have done studies that show that with a "limited training field" for GenAI, it gets…well…corrupted.
So if Daz is claiming its AI engine is only, trained on its own images, it should then start “eating itself” faster than one of the big web-wide genAI engines.

Bejaymac posted at 7:19 AM Sun, 11 August 2024 - #4488300

Main issue is that DAZ have a strict "no attacks" policy on the forums.

The company, it's staff, the forum staff, the content creaters and even the user base is covered by this.

So you can't heavilly crit them, slag them off, make them look bad, or even make them look stupid.

Before you ask, yep I've had thousands of posts deleted over there, and for all of the above, as a result I'm probably going to be one of a small group, who are "Pre Moderated" on a permanent basis.

Can you tell me, if that is the principle, what the post:
"Some companies will allow it (under the ideal of fan art), some companies will nail you between the eyes.
(fair use is a defence, not a reason to use. Its suppose to be used in court to defend/explain why you have the right to use something)
It depends on the companies terms"

Was breaking the "No attack" policy? (keep in mind, this was in reply to posts above it, stating flat out that daz was breaking IP right)
BTW the topic of the thread had been in regards to the EL and to fan art.
NOTHING in that post, is wrong. It is factual and provable.
It did not attack anyone. It referred to the fact some companies like Nintendo will, very aggressively pursue almost anyone using their IP and some companies, don't care and will let their fan base make what ever.
INFACT....
Provably(as it was shown via the email chain that followed this)
There were posts in that 18 page thread that were far, far worse in stating flat out daz was wrong and those posts were allowed to stay.
(They finally, after releasing items clearly direct copies of movie and book characters and people were going "hold up, do you even have the permission to do this" they removed the entire thread.)

I have had posts removed that did flat out state "Hey you have made a mistake" and on those times, I held my hands up and had to keep my mouth shut, because I was shown the ToS point it violated.

But the above post....didnt break anything.
That, was when I decided I had enough of their “favouritism” and selective censorship and very selective use of the ToS.


And btw, the "No attack policy"? I made a post in reference to how their wording of certain "sales" was confusing. Particularly to those with things like dyscalculia. I then had to get posts taking the utter mick out of the fact "Oh Daz math is too hard"(an actual post quote).
I referenced in my post that being “inclusive” shouldn't just be products that show a character in a wheelchair but also take into account that some of their customer base is going to be ND(neurodivergent). And it had plenty of posts that made jokes about it.
So that "no attack policy" must be very selective. But it proves the point that the mods, base their exercise of ToS rules purely on personal likes and dislikes and not on what the TOS is actually saying.

SydneyInPeril posted at 9:02 AM Thu, 8 August 2024 - #4488173

Torquinox posted at 7:40 PM Tue, 6 August 2024 - #4488114

So, there is a layer of reality that has been excluded from the conversation. Daz will say they "trained the AI with their own data" but that's only the top layer of data, the frosting. The underlying layer is made of stolen data, the same as every other AI generator out there. There are no ethical data training sets. They're all based on mass theft. That's because it takes billions of images and enormous volumes of text and enormous computing power to make the ai "smart enough" to do anything with the layer of frosting on top, the actual Daz data.

It all goes back to the Laion data sets. It's well documented that those are made of stolen data. Of course, you're not allowed to say "stolen data" on Daz site because it implies that some company did something wrong - Which of course all the AI companies did when they stole everything from everyone on the internet to train their AIs under the false auspices of research and fair use. Now the AI companies are making money off it and the AI industry has billions and billions of dollars being pumped into it. This apparently makes it all ok because we're all just little people dumb enough to share our work on the internet. So, it's ok to steal from us. And it is theft. When a company takes our work and incorporates it into their AI training data sets without our consent or compensation, that's theft. It was also ok to steal from famous artists and from Stephen King, too.

There are a few artists attempting lawsuits, but who knows how those will go? I do not expect much in the way of legal remedy. It is known that AIs have a habit of regurgitating parts of or entire works in its output. And it is known that earlier models are used as the starting point for later models, and it is pretty much impossible to remove the stolen works from the data set. So, once it's in there, it's in there.

That's the biggest frustration. There isn't a commitment to "delete it all and start over to placate the artists we screwed over", and anyone who thinks artists are "overpaid" are very much trying to jump on this and make it work - hell, anyone who thinks people are overpaid for anything are trying very very hard to jump on this and make it work.

It also shows how broken the entire copyright system is, since it pretty much is expecting the artists to go after the companies in court for enforcement, and otherwise is basically slanted in the direction of the biggest coffers. As long as the companies in question get to basically rake the internet, it takes away the biggest and best forms of advertisement from the artists because it's a serious risk to put anything on the internet because it will get fed into one of these engines without a lot of work to attempt to poison the input, and that only really works if enough artists agree to do the poisoning without so many doing it that all the engineers have to do is add a special case to inoculate against the poisoning. Granted, that was already a problem (just look at the art that gets downloaded and slapped on t-shirts!), but Generative Imagery Engines make the problem so much bigger because now an artist's style can be "emulated", and is much harder to point at in a court as a direct copyright violation.

I agree completely!

@Torquinox Very nice post in the issues with any generative AI model. They can not say it is trained purely on images they own. As if it did, it would start having issues with cannibalizing its own information. There is an amazing article on that that was posted to LinkedIn about that.

Nevertrumper posted at 11:14 AM Tue, 6 August 2024 - #4488106

In my experience, forum moderators are not your friends. They are to enforce forum and company rules, since in many ways the website owner can be made responsable for forum post.
Forum moderators also make sure, that no forum posts or threads are damaging the website owner's business model.
Just house rules.
So what do you expect?
You don't like DAZ moderation?
That's fine, you don't have to.
Just don't believe, it would be better here.
It isn't, neither at rotica or RenderHub.
DeviantArts is different as they don't seem to have an active moderation. 
Instead you'll see MAGA fascist all over at DA in their forum threads. 

You are aware, that 1-forum mods are there to uphold the ToS of a site, they keep abuse down and to make sure that posts adhere to the conversation thread. They are not there to abuse their power or unnecessarily censor customers. And 2-they are not supposed to allow their personal preference interfere with what is and isnt expressed, as long as it is within the ToS

Any professional forum I have been on, has adhered to those standards. If a site, a consumer site is so panic stricken, so fearing its customers as to have to slam the hammer down on someone saying,

“Some companies will go after you and some wont” in regard to fan art/IP that is a red flag of the biggest kind.

If customers simply asking (what is their legal and ethical right) if they have the valid IP right to sell materials on a specific Movie/book set(because it is not clear), scares them and makes them delete a forum post...red flag!

If they allow their own personal likes and dislikes to favour certain members and censure others, that is not PROFESSIONAL.

I am a forum moderator on a chat site, and we are NOT allowed to “I dont like that member, so I am going to chase their post” behaviour.
We are not allowed to base a decision if a post is "ok” or not, on if we “like” the person or not. If it doesn't break the ToS, it doesn't get removed. Its that simple.

They are standing on the statement they are “one of the biggest 3d marketplaces online”. Then they should act like it!
They should respect when their customers do the “Hey, uhm, you sure it's OK to sell that”? and simply(and proudly) go “Yes! We have procured the licence for....” and be done with it. Ends all speculation, promotes further sales, and shows they are being very proactive in both respect for the companies and in their customers.

Do they?
No!
Do they freak out, and go ban happy when someone dares to ask?
YES.
That is a red flag. End of.

If you are going to be in the public as a marketplace, that is not the same as some wee, personal gallery site that is held by a fan.
That is stepping up to cover things like consumer rights and laws. To step up and accept there are going to be questions you should be prepared to answer. There are going to be things like “Hey you messed up on this advert” (when they do).
If they can not handle that, perhaps....they need to do abit of self reflecting!

As for DA...I have gone up and questioned their leniency on underage images MANY times. I have questioned and challenged their leniency on copyright infringement etc. I still have my account there and still question certain behaviours of theirs.
This is not a "Daz" specific issue.

The moderators at Daz allow their personal friendships, likes/dislikes to colour their decisions. They have an issue with anyone even daring to say the site may make a mistake. Not even out right, doing something wrong! But just a mistake!
That...shows a very shaking base on fairness and legality.