Ah what would I do without renderosity? Thankyou all very much you've been a big help! The plugin looks useful, I'll definately give it a try if it works on a Mac. This looks like the best freebie modeller for the Mac and I'll certainly persevere with it. I know I'm not going to find modelling easy! I've tried a number of apps and really only got on with Amapi which I don't really like, it's a bit unstable and clunky and Cinema which I loved immediately but I can't afford it! I think the reason I got on OK with those two are that they allow poly by poly modelling which immediately makes some sense to me. Wings is slowly starting to make some sense and your advice will make it easier still. Maybe I'll post one of my efforts if I can make anything recogniseable! Thanks again Baz