I've got a skaven right in front of me yeah, the GW skaven have more streamlined, little ears, thicker eyebrows with small beady eyes, a tail (shit, I can't believe I forgot that!) and they have white patches on their head on the eyebrows, around the mouth, and ears...but those I think can be added with a texture map (I hope) If I flatten the head then change the ears (with a morph, I think it's bloodsongs) then it actually does kinda look like the GW ones IMHO...I think it's mostly the clothing they're wearing that makes them look different But I didn't actually want to copy GW, I wanted that general idea, so I had GW skaven in front of me to guide me, but these are meant to be more contempory, for a comic where they live under Sydney City =) I've opted to go with big cat eyes instead of beady rat eyes 'cause in dark images like I tend to make the large eyes work better, maybe I should copy across a morph to make more rat-like eyes =) SewerRat