I'm trying to use Victoria 4 and the Verve Leatherette outfit. Basically, everything looked good- till I started to pose her arms. See the pic. Anyone have any idea what's causing this?

This started when I began adjusting the side-to-side dials. it happens with both arms. I'm using Poser 12.0.703.

Adjust the zones in the joint editor.

If, as it appears, you're moving the forearms using the side-side dials, I'm not surprised it does that.  Forearms don't move side to side, so the joints won't be adjusted for that dial.

SamTherapy posted at 3:16 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430382

If, as it appears, you're moving the forearms using the side-side dials, I'm not surprised it does that.  Forearms don't move side to side, so the joints won't be adjusted for that dial.

I'm trying to cross her arms. If I don't use the side-to-side to swing her arms in front of her chest, how do I do it? This works with every other outfit.

bwldrd posted at 12:01 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430376

Adjust the zones in the joint editor.

I've never done that. How?

mdbruffy posted at 7:05 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430393

SamTherapy posted at 3:16 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430382

If, as it appears, you're moving the forearms using the side-side dials, I'm not surprised it does that.  Forearms don't move side to side, so the joints won't be adjusted for that dial.

I'm trying to cross her arms. If I don't use the side-to-side to swing her arms in front of her chest, how do I do it? This works with every other outfit.

Use your own arms as an example and see how you do it.  The human skeleton doesn't allow for very much side to side movement at knees and elbows, maybe a degree of movement at the most.  We move our upper arms slightly forward and rotate them, which brings the forearms in, while bending the forearms up toward the upper arm.

Whether or not it works with other outfits isn't really the point here; the fact is, it's incorrect and impossible to do IRL.

SamTherapy posted at 7:19 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430395

mdbruffy posted at 7:05 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430393

SamTherapy posted at 3:16 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430382

If, as it appears, you're moving the forearms using the side-side dials, I'm not surprised it does that.  Forearms don't move side to side, so the joints won't be adjusted for that dial.

I'm trying to cross her arms. If I don't use the side-to-side to swing her arms in front of her chest, how do I do it? This works with every other outfit.

Use your own arms as an example and see how you do it.  The human skeleton doesn't allow for very much side to side movement at knees and elbows, maybe a degree of movement at the most.  We move our upper arms slightly forward and rotate them, which brings the forearms in, while bending the forearms up toward the upper arm.

Whether or not it works with other outfits isn't really the point here; the fact is, it's incorrect and impossible to do IRL.

It's not impossible. I've done it with V4 in other outfits by just using the dials on the fore arms. Your method worked. But I had to twist the entire arm to accomplish it.

All that aside, you'll also need to consider the JCMs... which in V4, AFAIK, are magnet deformers, which were created for a specific range of rotation. I don't think I've ever seen JCMs designed for forearm side to side motion. Those things are set at limits for expected ranges of rotation. I'd have to agree with SamTherapy here, and the fact that his instructions about how to pose a figure within it's expected limits produced a result that worked.

While it is considered "proper" posing to rotate the arm rather than using the side to side of the forearm, sometimes you might find doing it is the only way to get the arm perfectly place. To adjust the joint zone;

1 open the joint editor window (window>joint editor).

2 select the offending body part in the clothing, in this case, the forearm

3 in the joint editor, select the type of rotation, for your problem, the side to side

4 now select the innermatsphere. You can try to click on it, or you can find it under props or control pros in Poser 11 or 12.

5 rescale the sphere on the x, y, or z axis until the bulges disappear. Looking at the example, I'd start with Y for this one.

6 copy the joint to the other side using rig symmetry or symmetry in older versions to correct the other side

alternatively, you can use the morph editor and smooth brush to flatten the area.

Sasha-16 has the side-side movement disabled for forearms. But the standard V4 does not, and I've never seen clothing explode that way when you pose the forearms using the side-side dial.

I'm not familiar with that outfit. Is it old?

Maybe "copy joint zones from" would fix it?

mdbruffy posted at 7:33 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430396

SamTherapy posted at 7:19 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430395

mdbruffy posted at 7:05 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430393

SamTherapy posted at 3:16 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430382

If, as it appears, you're moving the forearms using the side-side dials, I'm not surprised it does that.  Forearms don't move side to side, so the joints won't be adjusted for that dial.

I'm trying to cross her arms. If I don't use the side-to-side to swing her arms in front of her chest, how do I do it? This works with every other outfit.

Use your own arms as an example and see how you do it.  The human skeleton doesn't allow for very much side to side movement at knees and elbows, maybe a degree of movement at the most.  We move our upper arms slightly forward and rotate them, which brings the forearms in, while bending the forearms up toward the upper arm.

Whether or not it works with other outfits isn't really the point here; the fact is, it's incorrect and impossible to do IRL.

It's not impossible. I've done it with V4 in other outfits by just using the dials on the fore arms. Your method worked. But I had to twist the entire arm to accomplish it.

Yes, it is impossible in real life.  Your own arms do not move from side to side at the elbow joint.  If they do, there's something seriously wrong.  My entire point is, pose the figure properly - as a real life human would achieve that position - and the clothes will have a better chance of keeping up.

Wouldn't it be funny if OP went to the trouble of adjusting the inclusion zones and the problem persisted? :D

randym77 posted at 8:21 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430401

Sasha-16 has the side-side movement disabled for forearms. But the standard V4 does not, and I've never seen clothing explode that way when you pose the forearms using the side-side dial.

I'm not familiar with that outfit. Is it old?

Maybe "copy joint zones from" would fix it?

I think so. I started out having trouble finding the obj files for it ( found them scattered throughout the runtime for some reason) and went to both Daz and Reno to re-download the zip and couldn't find it. This is the first time I've used it since I've had it.

Curious. Both DAZ and Rosity keep removed products available for re-download in your purchase history. I wonder where you got it. Only some RDNA products are available at DAZ. I think PoserPros and 3DCommune stuff is gone forever, unless the vendor moved elsewhere. Verve appears to have left Poserdom long ago.

I've occasionally had odd artifacts around V4's elbows, that might be because there were so many different versions of V4 and her clothing released over the years. Nothing as bad as in your example, though.

Posing without using the side-side dial does seem like the easiest solution to your problem. But sometimes, it just looks better if you use side-side. Less mesh distortion in some poses, even if it's not the way the human arm actually works.

randym77 posted at 9:29 AM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430410

"Curious. Both DAZ and Rosity keep removed products available for re-download in your purchase history..."

Not always. There have been several times I've gone back to Daz to re-download a file only to find it removed. They're too busy pushing G8 to keep anything around that people might be able to use.

What I find sad is that I can't find old POSER purchases anywhere. Like things one got at SmithMicro, such as James G2, Olivia, a ton of clothes etc. Those are gone because while the products themselves moved over there, as far as I know, the purchases didn't. And unless you have all those on an uncorruptable postable hard drive or up in the cloud on your third backup's backup... Ugh.

I've never found one of my purchases unavailable at DAZ, and I have stuff dating back 20 years there.

They do have server issues a lot. I suspect when there's a lot of traffic, the first thing they dump is access to old purchase history. But if you come back later, it works.

I've also found that sometimes the zip files are corrupt. In which case, you can download stuff through the DAZ Installer, and it works fine.

Support is really slow. I opened a ticket about a corrupt zip file, and they got back to me and admitted it that it was, in fact, corrupt.

Recently, I was informed the corrupt zip file was fixed. I checked, and it was well over a year ago that I opened the ticket. They asked me to rate the support I received. I mean, I can't complain about the solution. It worked. But over a year doesn't seem like it rates a positive review.

Rhia474 posted at 1:31 PM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430430

What I find sad is that I can't find old POSER purchases anywhere. Like things one got at SmithMicro, such as James G2, Olivia, a ton of clothes etc. Those are gone because while the products themselves moved over there, as far as I know, the purchases didn't. And unless you have all those on an uncorruptable postable hard drive or up in the cloud on your third backup's backup... Ugh.

I don't think I've ever lost Poser stuff to bad hard drives (knock on wood). But some stuff I can't remember where I put it, and some stuff I bought but never downloaded. Like that Viking pack by MortemVetus, which is now for sale here. If he'd moved it to DAZ it would be in my purchase history there, but since he came here instead, I can no longer download it (unless I buy it again).

There's so much stuff that's no longer available anywhere, that I would buy if I could. I recently came across a mention of Sassafras, the toonish cat that was sold at RDNA. It was a fairly realistic cat, but stood on two legs, took human poses, and had clothes and stuff. I want Sassafras! I don't even remember who made it.

Ugh. I meant I've never NOT found.

randym77 posted at 2:09 PM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430434

I've never found one of my purchases unavailable at DAZ, and I have stuff dating back 20 years there.

They do have server issues a lot. I suspect when there's a lot of traffic, the first thing they dump is access to old purchase history. But if you come back later, it works.

I've also found that sometimes the zip files are corrupt. In which case, you can download stuff through the DAZ Installer, and it works fine.

Support is really slow. I opened a ticket about a corrupt zip file, and they got back to me and admitted it that it was, in fact, corrupt.

Recently, I was informed the corrupt zip file was fixed. I checked, and it was well over a year ago that I opened the ticket. They asked me to rate the support I received. I mean, I can't complain about the solution. It worked. But over a year doesn't seem like it rates a positive review.

Are you trying to pose the arms of the clothing or the figure?  The first screen shot you posted shows that you have the clothing selected. Instead, pose the figure's arms and you should be good to go.

Rhia474 posted at 1:31 PM Sat, 13 November 2021 - #4430430

What I find sad is that I can't find old POSER purchases anywhere. Like things one got at SmithMicro, such as James G2, Olivia, a ton of clothes etc. Those are gone because while the products themselves moved over there, as far as I know, the purchases didn't. And unless you have all those on an uncorruptable postable hard drive or up in the cloud on your third backup's backup... Ugh.

I have hard copy back ups on archival DVDs (so say good for 100 years) of all my Poser downloads and a cloud copy just to cover off robbery and fire at the home.  All the purchased I have downloaded are stored in yearly folders with monthly sub folders and then finally I have a database that list the details including the date so i can easily find any given purchase.  I can go back 20 years and still find purchases.  In addition to this I have second and third copies of my working runtime folder

The downside is it takes and lot of time in keeping the backups up to date, although I have recently automated the cloud update.  Keeping the database up to date means filling in all the new content as soon as I buy it when all I really want to do is play with my new toys.  Not sure if this effort is really worth it as I could spend so much more time playing but with the cost of maybe losing some content along the way.

To cross arms, I always bend the forearm and twist the shoulder. Sometimes a small twist/bend of the collar can help, too.

VedaDalsette posted at 3:27 PM Tue, 16 November 2021 - #4430635

To cross arms, I always bend the forearm and twist the shoulder. Sometimes a small twist/bend of the collar can help, too.

Which is what I said, 12 or so posts ago.  :D