Well again, regardless of whether I lose the argument about 5 vs. 10 for the cloth simulations / bullet physics ---- my original point was that it represented a significantly cool innovation for Poser. I was holding it up as an example of what's missing in the last four years of development. Bug fix...improvement...bug fix...rinse and repeat - and yet the only thing that excited me enough to get involved again was the ability to export SubD figures to Zbrush to make HD morphs that would be retained in Poser format. And of course as mentioned, the exchange does not work for me...and never has. I've tried it on three separate computers and even again on my main workstation after upgrading to a more modern graphics card. And it still doesn't work. So to me, the one awesome innovation added in the last four years is a disheartening bust that Charles and company don't seem real concerned with fixing. Meanwhile they toil away endlessly on everything else apparently. I did my part to help them figure the bug out at the time I reported it and I went back and forth for a couple of weeks and finally I just realized they didn't care so I stopped bothering to assist. So again, this one dating/version debate is moot quite honestly. But that said, I did find screenshots showing a CLOTH room tab in Poser 5 so there was clearly some sort of clothing addition with it. But whether it was CL or Smith that brought us clothing simulation and bullet physics the point is that they did and 11 and 12 present us with nothing worthy of the price for the upgrade. Bondware - THINK BIG! - if you want to save Poser.