I am glad you are persisting because that means my findings are not in isolation, not probably due to my ignorance and stumbling around in Carrara. I hope to see your final attempts at some point, thanks. I hope you'll report both before AND after you bring GI into the picture. I have to laugh every time I do a Carrara render, because the progress tiles go lickety split until they hit the hair, and then bog down, but when it gets below the hairline, the last two or three rows of tiles rush forward like mad and then your'e done. Which, of course, makes me highly desirous of attempting some trial runs with hair at a distance (where it looks fine without these drastic settings), outside under HDRI/AO/GI. Should be terrific. ::::: Opera :::::