I will take the edge and surface tools in the Pro version over built in symmetry any day. I have used Lightwave for 7 years now, we are just getting edges. I believe Carrara is quickly gaining ground on the big boys. Will it ever supplant them? Probably not. But it is a great package for the money. Less so now considering the drop in price for other apps, but still a lot of bang for the buck. Of course my needs are completely different than the next person. Carrara has some great output as far as rendering goes. The animation tools are nowhere near as complete as my "other" app. However, the majority of my work is either logo work for commercials or instructional type work for products. Carrara is superb for these. But I could never learn to like the modeler. With these added features I am ready to jump back in. I can import my LW objects now. I could have in C4 Pro, but this upgrade makes more sense to me than C4 Pro did to me last year. I am sorry that "your" most wanted feature didnt make it in. I have some features that I would like to see implemented as well. Such as builtin texture coordinates without having to resort to a plugin. This would allow easy animated procedural textures, which are very powerful. I use them in my "other" app all the time. The way I see it is you have two choices. Either accept that symmetry is not there or go with a different product. You mention high end apps, perhaps that would be the best way to go. Obviously Eovia didnt think symmetry was important enough to warrant being included with Carrara. But if the feature is that important to you, I would suggest looking elsewhere for now. I can say this. The choices available now are mind bending when you look at the way things were just a few years ago. It is an embarassment of riches so to speak. Never before has so much power been accesible by so many. Not just in Carrara but in all 3D apps. All at a cost far less than what it used to be. I started with Infini-D and Strata. To think how far 3D has come in just 10 years. We all have to make choices. You need to decide if Carrara's other strengths are enough for you to buy the upgrade. For me they are. I sat out last year. But this year it is a no brainer. One job will pay for the cost many times over. But if I wasnt satisfied with the upgrade and what I thought it should include, well I wouldnt buy it. Plain and simple. At the same time I would not spend time complaining about the product not having such and such feature. Because there are too many choices out there and I am not locked in to any company. If I were a hobbyist perhaps my thinking would be different. Of course using Lightwave I guess the question is why Carrara? Well, for me Carrara's GI solution works great. I also do architectural renderings on a regular basis. LW has GI as welll obviously. But Carrara to me seems much quicker. LW uses either interpolated background or Monte Carlo which is very slow. Photon mapping seems to me a better solution. Other than that, well I have to say that I like smaller companies. I saw in the beta last year Eovia's willingness to listen to customers. That means a lot. I realise that they havent listened to you, dont know what to say there. But imagine this. In Lightwave there is one, yes one undo in Layout. But in Modeler they are limited by memory only. So if you think Eovia is bad about not listening to customers, you might think about that. We have asked for years for multiple undo's. Alright, off the soapbox now. Good luck in your decision.