Well, I reworked parts of the mesh again (never satisfied) and this time I have a very nice looking model. This is entirely one part making up all of the "non-movable" parts. The doors and the turret will be seperate objects so they can be made movable. Now I have the break out the Shader Domains and the UVmap and start on the bump (yeah I decided to go back to a bump map. Trying to model in all of the detail just made the model too "busy")and the final shader. Here are 4 pics showing the model from various angles as well as a pic of the wire frame. mike