Ok, one more correction. Using the rectangle layer it is possible to adjust the rectangle area from within the shading interface. You dont need to apply a rectangle layer within the modeler. Just set it to rectangle within the shader, then play with the settings for top and left (numeric) and viola. This controls the scale of the texture. Allows easy downsizing and placement. Sorry to everyone it I seemed upset. But the manual is very vague. In fact most of the manual has references that say for more info on such and such feature please refer to page #..., usually its the page you are on. Anyway, thanks for the patience, goes to show that sometimes a solution is right in front of you, just need to dig a little. It will still take more effort than it does in Lightwave, but after working with it a little it is much easier now. Hope this might help someone out there, maybe not though, seems I was the only who was having trouble with this. Donnie