Thanks peejay and Poppi! Poppi, weeeell.....I wish I could tell you ears are easy, but! I find them tricky, that's why this is the first head I've made that has them. I've tried making them three or four times before and gave up. Probably because I've never found a decent tut about making them with sub division techniques. What I did, roughly was arange the mesh so that there was an n-gon where the ear was going to go, in Lightwave it would have to be Quads and tris. Then if you smoothshift the whole group of polys without dragging and then use the size tool to make the group smaller. This will leave a ring of quads outlining the area, with me so far? Now select that ring and smoothshift again only this time use the move tool to pull it out of the head. The tube created is the basis for the ear. I actually left a bit of a gap at the front so it didn't make a complete tube. Then I pulled verts about until the polys that were smooth shifted point out radially instead of sidewards, smoothshift and probably scale? again to create a disc shape. That's basically it. The tricky bit is arranging the geometry to follow all the crinckles inside the ear. Sorry I can't be more precise, I modelled this in Wings, I don't know Lightwave nearly so well I'm afraid. If I can find the time I'll put a few pics up to show you more clearly - Baz PS Sorry about the green colour ;o)