Thanks everyone! Teyon you're right about the eyes, I never know how big to make the eyball, it's very difficult to tell from photos. Any tips for getting it right? Hmm, didn't the first diagram in Loggies original boneloop post show the whole eyeball, I'll have to check. Maybe I will leave this one now, I have lost interest in it a bit and I've got some ideas I want to try out on the next one. On the other hand this one feels close to being right and it would be kinda cool to finish it off. Maybe I'll archive it and come back :o) Pleased to hear you can use Wings now Teyon, wish I could upgrade my graphics card but you can't on an iMac :o( I won't be getting a new computer for a long time either, I'll just have to drool over the new G5s! There's a good manual for Wings now Teyon, not quite up to date but it should be a big help. I'll post a link for ya! - Baz