VK, Thanks for the comments I have used the copy/paste in MFM, so if I were stuck with VM, I would probably get around to that. It is just not a convenient way to do a full toro with arms and legs. The 'save/reopen causes the multi-group to be there' - I probably would only have found by accident - so thanks. I was commenting on auto-position in that the figure was at a different place with it off. I just did the controls. If disable autoscaling is not checked, the morph enlarges the head If auto position is checked, the morph moves the head to the floor. If disable autoscale is checked and autoposition is not, the morph is OK - I use the unmorphed head, so the applied morph would have zero deltas if it were correct. The problem is the V3 head. Carrara does indicate why it cannot save the mesh as *.car, it just will not. The rest of the figure saves as it should in Carrara, but it is the head that I am aiming at. I have XP Home with 1 gig RAM / I don't know how to affect the memory available to Carrara - it has about 80 gig of empty HD to use as a swap . Task manager says the Carrara is using less than 400K of RAM when a save as *.car fails - it had at least an equal amount available if it needed it. My guess is that there is some upper limit on mesh size coded into the program and these two figure heads exceed it. It is probably an easy fix - things may be going beyond what the programmers imagined. Bij, nice to talk with you about this, If I get around to rendering in Carrara, here is an experiment I would like to try: RDS will take the Poser plug-in - use a PZ3 and allows posing within RDS - I am nor sure about ERC though - or if morphs can be hand set- but i think that is possible. Carrara will open an *.RDS. The shaders part seemed a bit daunting compaired to Poser 4, but after the Materials room in P5, I think the complexity there is about the same.