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Subject: AAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrgh Linux !! RV or anyone lol

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heddheld  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 5:22 am

ok bit the bullit an tried linux, it really dont like my twin monitors or my mouse?? only 1 screen works an mouse is a waste of space in there! can sorta get round on keyboard but no good for blender lol .Have tried mint/unbuntu as dual boot get nothing but garbage on screen(sorta blah "failed to load") the unbuntu windows install sorta works, one screen no mouse!! a "live" distro from BA !! comp reboots till I pull the cd out


any ideas or links to sites would be great!!?? brain transplant is a nono

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 6:12 am

Hmmm, lots of questions, here. Is this a laptop or desktop? Which graphics adapter? How old is the system?


Another idea: do you have access to an old, essentially abandoned PC that you could trial stuff on? I'd even suggest going to your local computer recycling shop and picking up a cheap desktop, pop in a decent NVidia 460 graphics card so you can do CUDA... the rest doesn't have to be too crash-hot, but a 64-bit cpu would be nice and maybe 4-8 gig ram.


Does that sound feasible?

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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heddheld  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 7:42 am

lol this IS my old abandoned desktop, quad core amd 64 bit  8 gig ram nvidia 560 gtx (2 gig) sec monitor runs off onboard nvidia 7025!! (but could run both off gtx card or even just have 1 monitor)


mm linux dont get near new comp till I got it working ;-) an know what I'm doing in there


sorta want to lose the windoze feeling!! think I maybe get a mac ? lol

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 10:02 am, Edited Thu, Jan 31, 2013 10:03 am

What version of Linux hed? I had this same problem last night - tested two versions of Linux...one I had to use command line and the other had a utility. But I did get them both working.


Laurie

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RASheldon  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:15 pm

I switched to Ubuntu 12.x 64bit 6 months ago for the same reasons and have blender 2.65 installed and running perfectly, better than it ever ran on windows 7. Initially I had similar issues running my GeForce 9600 and it's because of the Nvidia drivers not the OS (Ubuntu/Linux).


I went with Ubuntu because it's linux newbee friendly so to speak. Many of the issues I had were easily resolved by just using the built-in system updater, it will prompt you to use Nvidia drivers instead of the default drivers that really dont work for Nvidia cards just like Windows does, but it makes you choose the driver you want. This is the way its done because Ubuntu/Linux is open source and the drivers arent.


As for installing blender, just download the proper version, unzip it to a folder and run it. Blender for Linux comes with all files required so it doesnt have to be "installed" on the system. Make a shortcut to the execute file and move it to the desktop, easy. 


Most versions of Linux have great support forums to help with nearly every issue.


Hope this helps.

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heddheld  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:42 pm

tried mint (cinamon(sp)?)  and the unbuntu windoze installer, for the mint I made a linux partion with easeus, file sys ext3 it "seemed" to load ok but wouldnt boot


the unbuntu seems to work to a point can open anything off the left bar with mouse then mouse wont work in window but I can move in window with arrow keys enter etc and it only works off the built in graphics, other monitor is just blank, dont mind dropping a monitor but cant work with no mouse!! tablet wont work either but think thats the drivers an can sort that when I have mouse working, its a rat 5 mouse some extra buttons but not a lot lol so not sure if thats a driver problem but even then is should work as a basic mouse? getting fed up of it all at the mo' so maybe buy a pencil an rob some paper ;-)

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:44 pm

If I understand correctly, you're running off a CD? The behaviour might be a bit sketchy and not very configurable. Would you have a tiny (< 200gig) drive you could wipe and actually install - say Mint - to? I suggest Mint because it is probably - well, to *me*, anyway - most like the Windows experience compared to even Ubuntu with Unity, which some - namely *me* - have issues with.


I wouldn't suggest dual-boot at this stage because it does require understanding the Linux file system a bit better... you can get small drives at swap meets or wherever for peanuts. That way, the install will set up all your defaults nicely, including swap file size, etc. Don't go with encrypted /home folder: I had issues with changing a password causing dramas. For mice: I use the el-cheapo Logitech wireless $11 mice I bought at Target in the States whilst we were on holidays there... the same mouse here in Oz will run you AUD$36 - $45!

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:50 pm, Edited Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:50 pm

To be honest, Hedd, I'd go with defaults, like ext4, f'rinstance... let the installer wipe your drive completely (GRUB2 and dual-boot isn't too hard, but it can be a bit tricky at times). And go with basic and familiar until you get the system working. You'll need the proprietary NVidia drivers which the System Tools thingie will find for you and install and voila: dual monitors. I never *did* get the second monitor to display a second image, Laurie... not sure how you accomplished that. Would you have a link?

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:55 pm, Edited Thu, Jan 31, 2013 2:56 pm

Also, bring up GParted and have a look at how your drives are organised. Your CD should have that app on it. Sometimes, if there's still a Windows Dynamic Drive on the system, it totally stuffs anything Linux. Windows is stupid, arrogant, myopic, insecure, arrogant, childish, self-centred... did I say 'arrogant'?... anyway, you get my drift.


Case in point: when you run dual-boot Windows/Linux, in Linux you can easily/natively read and write NTFS files and folders. Windows doesn't even natively *see* ext*anything* files or folders. Stupid.

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 3:45 pm, Edited Thu, Jan 31, 2013 3:46 pm

Quote - "dual monitors. I never *did* get the second monitor to display a second image, Laurie... not sure how you accomplished that. Would you have a link? "


Well, in Lubuntu I saw a video that told me what to put in to install another display controller (I can't remembe the name of it...lol).


For Mint and Zorin (both Ubuntu as well), the display settings worked for me. I unchecked Mirror Monitors and, since my monitors are reversed - I plugged em in wrong...lol - I just slid the monitor I wanted the taskbar and stuff to be on to the left.


I really liked Zorin btw...for a die-hard Windows user like me it feels "comfy" LOL.


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 4:16 pm

Quote - "...I really liked Zorin btw...for a die-hard Windows user like me it feels "comfy" LOL.

Laurie


"


Quite true, Laurie. I'd forgotten about Zorin: great idea for Hedd, really. Minimal learning curve, and easy to install and work in, really. Pretty sure the Free Version should do everything you want, Hedd... be sure to get the 64-bit version... Mind you, the *Ultimate* version is only €10... how cheap is that!


I do donate to the various free software organisations, like LinuxMint and Blender and so forth. Giving something back...

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 4:46 pm

I really WANT to like Linux. Truly I do. LOL I would love nothing more than to free myself from Windows and Microsoft's deadly grip ;). But it's soooo different that it may take me too long to grasp...maybe more longer than I'm willing to take ;).


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Jan 31, 2013 4:54 pm

Quote - "I really WANT to like Linux. Truly I do. LOL I would love nothing more than to free myself from Windows and Microsoft's deadly grip ;). But it's soooo different that it may take me too long to grasp...maybe more longer than I'm willing to take ;).

Laurie


"


I think MS's "deadly grasp" is faltering with Win8... the change from Win7 to Win8 is significantly greater for the average user than going, say from XP to Zorin or Mint. Sure, the file structure is different, but really if you paint within the lines - use only software from the Software Centre ... i.e., Repositories - don't try to do anything crazy/fancy/customised, most of the popular distros will give you all of that on a stick. The drivers situation has improved so much that for newer stuff, the driver exists before the device is even on the market, in some cases. The key is to let the distro do all the hard work for you and don't try to leverage techie knowledge of Windows to Linux: it won't work.

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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heddheld  

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Posted Fri, Feb 1, 2013 2:07 am

thanks for all the help, will try dropping a new drive in see if its any better and have a look at zorin (hadnt heard of that one)

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heddheld  

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Posted Fri, Feb 1, 2013 6:27 am

horay I got mint working, have to find out how to turn other monitor on but so far so good lol


it would seem it was a dodgy dvd or a bad burn lol reburnt the iso on a dif comp and it all installed fine, right I'm off to see how well blender works

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Fri, Feb 1, 2013 7:13 am

Good ON ya, Hedd... I just knew there was something dodgy about how the whole thing went for you. Go get Blender from ppa via SourceForge and Shinsuke Irie... worth it! The blender.org build is *ancient*!


Oh, and take a bit of time to read up on Linux... it's not Windows, thank goodness. It's not a better Windows, either. It's Linux. It's free, as in freedom. Believe me, this is significant, which Ballmer knows, and it has him quaking in his mocassins. Free (unfettered) computing is available... *now*. I'm not referring to free=no-cost - I would pay a *premium* for this!

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Fri, Feb 1, 2013 7:47 am

I remember the name of the Lubuntu program I used to get the monitors working now...lol. It's arandr and it's in the software center.


For mint, you can fix your monitors up in the display settings included with the OS.


Laurie

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LaurieA  

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Posted Sat, Feb 2, 2013 3:23 pm

I settled on Kubuntu in the end. It's still ubuntu, but doesn't have the ugly Unity interface, but KDE, which I like ;). Been running quite well, thru a wubi install. I might end up liking it....do so far. LOL.


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Sat, Feb 2, 2013 4:43 pm, Edited Sat, Feb 2, 2013 4:45 pm

This is going to sound like a retraction: it's not. I will be the first to admit that the GNU / UI end (more than Linux, which is just the kernel) requires tweaking, sometimes. I mean: the core install is generally fine for those who just want what the distro minds decided the UI should be like, but I'm never happy with other people's ideas for what works best for me, so inevitably I'll be looking for tweaks and changeables because I *can*, in GNU / Mint / Ubuntu. It's not much of an option, in Windows. In Windows, you have... Windows. You can change the desktop image, and - in later versions - enable or disable aero, but that's about it.


Interestingly, that is what puts most people *off* about Linux and GNU: this ability/freedom to make your computer your own. They want the familiar. And really, with Windows 8's lack of popularity among the masses, one gets the feeling MS should have paid attention to that.


Will GNU/Linux ever make it big on the desktop? Dunno. Does it matter? No. Definitely no. Have a read of The Cathedral and The Bazaar... it is *the* defining work regarding what makes the whole open-source movement tick, why it is - despite proprietary software's insistence it so couldn't - incredibly successful, and really, the main reason I could care less whether Linux on the Desktop succeeds as a concept of simply happens bit by bit for individuals rather than as a movement. (Incidently, this document played a major role in Netscape opening its code, making it open-source, which re-write ultimately became Mozilla's Firefox).

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Sat, Feb 2, 2013 5:39 pm, Edited Sat, Feb 2, 2013 5:39 pm

I think with a lot of ppl hating Windows 8 (especially those who need a pure desktop experience) may very well turn to Linux, especially if the next version of Windows is much like 8 is. I know if future versions of Windows are anything like Windows 8, I'll never use it again. Period. This is Linux' chance...if they can get their act together and make Linux really great (and by great I mean as easy to install and run as Windows is but still with the ability to tweak to the heart's content), then they may succeed ;). As it stands right now, it's close...soooo close. If they could just get the wrinkles ironed out. They might also need to think about a main standard as well. I think the idea of a gazillion different distros might be putting ppl off a bit too ;).


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Sat, Feb 2, 2013 6:12 pm

I really think that there will always be developers of the GNU distros (we'll call all this Linux for simplicity, since that is the kernel) who will see creating an easy-to-install/easy-to-use "it-just-works" distro for those defecting from Windows as their main goal. Zorin has this goal, Canonical do also, and not to be left behind, so do the LinuxMint team.


But a standard, "like Windows"? Well, when you think about it, the only *real* standard (based on ubiquity, for lack of another definition) is WinXP. When most of us think Windows, we think XP. And so, for those who want a "better Windows", we'd gravitate towards a distro that resembles XP the most.


But don't forget: Linux and GNU is *not* Windows. For me, this is a wonderful thing. I get updates all the time, and so I know my system is being refined all the time. I get updates to my software at the same time, the same way. This is actually infinitely better than how Windows does it. I am forced - by the nature of the beast - to be a bit more savvy about the structure of the OS... well, I have a /home folder and all my stuff is in there. The rest? I don't go there, hardly ever. And going there requires you know what the heck you're doing, and you have to be admin (root) to do anything. I quite like that.


But there are annoyances. Nothing is perfect. I realised this, going in, some stuff may work well, some may not work as expected, some may not work at all (wrong environment, or whatever).
I'm *still* not going to ask for my money back, though.

____________________

Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Sat, Feb 2, 2013 8:17 pm, Edited Sat, Feb 2, 2013 8:18 pm

Well, I have an old machine and a kvm switch I can put out here to run Linux on without using wubi. I'll be doing that, so I can learn a little at a time. Thinking back, it took me awhile with Windows 95 to learn enough not to be dangerous...lol. I think Linux might be a bit faster since I've already got the concepts down ;).


Laurie

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Feb 7, 2013 6:00 pm, Edited Thu, Feb 7, 2013 6:02 pm

Ok, I've been in Linux for nearly a week and only have one thing to say.....Windows who? LOL


For some odd reason it's clicking this time. I managed to set all my default programs, install xscreensavers, use another Nvidia driver and change all the default programs. Yes, I like it....yessssss. Kubuntu is great :). There hasn't been much that I haven't been able to get working, but I can definitely see installing Linux on my machine and just running Windows in Virtual Box or VM. LOL. Of course, there are some things that just "work" when running a wubi install - not sure if it's cause it's in the Windows file system. Most days this week tho I haven't even booted Windows ;). The main thing I like about it is it's FAAAAAST :). There hasn't been too many programs that I haven't been able to install thru Synaptics Package Manager and bypassing command line installs.


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Thu, Feb 7, 2013 6:33 pm

Good ON you, Laurie!


You'll find that - at this point in the technology - about the only thing you still need to run in Native Windows is Poser... at least, that has been my experience. Only because of the hardware acceleration thingie... haven't tried it in WINE - never got much of *anything* running in WINE, really - but in VirtualBox, the experience is... let's say: unsatisfactory.


So, el-cheapo laptop running Mint 13 64-bit and the latest version of Blender (just the GPU-Cycles bit won't work... video card is too old) and Firefox with GMail and all things internet, and a desktop with a hardened Win7 HomeEd which I *rarely* boot to, and running Mint 13 most of the time, including VirtualBox for Photoshop CS3.


You have Photoshop, don't you, Laurie? How do you feel it runs in VBox? Do you have a tablet? Mine is this toy ... sort-of, the Bamboo, so not too serious, like those Intuos ones. But I haven't done much with a tablet so far in PS-CS3/VBox/Win7/Mint 13... so can't say much about the 2D experience.


Photoshop CS3 is so worth having, though... sorry, GIMP tries, but it just doesn't hold a candle. My biggest thing these days is messing with hair textures, trying to a less-obvious Poser-ish look. F'instance, attached is LLF's Violet Hair is Blender... the hair texture is this noise->verticalBlur thingo with a sort of fade-out edge. I so want this to work better... maybe Poser might accept .pngs for transmaps so we don't have to mess with *two* textures instead of one.

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Feb 14, 2013 5:25 am, Edited Thu, Feb 14, 2013 5:29 am

I know this thread has gone way off the rails but I thought I'd show my Xubuntu desktop (I had installed VoyagerOS which is a beautiful skinned version of Xubuntu) but it was buggy for me and I hosed the whole thing more than once, so I switched back to Xubuntu. I managed to get it looking basically like the other did, but I had to set up the conkys myself (about 3 hours and three tries). Once I had the conkys installed it was no big deal to edit them - I've been a Rainmeter user for years on Windows. Same sort of code. I also managed to get the dual monitor setup and conkys to load on startup. Pretty nice :).


Anyway, I'm finding I really like Linux: GIMP and Blender both fly in it, I can watch Netflix with just a few command line inputs and it does pretty much everything Windows does (but while being better looking ;)). I haven't been in Windows other than to do a few upkeep things for two weeks now. I sorta feel like "Windows who?" completely now. LOL. I like Linux so much I cleaned off a hard drive and just installed it to do a dual boot :).


Laurie

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LaurieA  

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Posted Thu, Feb 14, 2013 5:37 am, Edited Thu, Feb 14, 2013 5:41 am

Quote - "

lol this IS my old abandoned desktop, quad core amd 64 bit  8 gig ram nvidia 560 gtx (2 gig) sec monitor runs off onboard nvidia 7025!! (but could run both off gtx card or even just have 1 monitor)


mm linux dont get near new comp till I got it working ;-) an know what I'm doing in there


sorta want to lose the windoze feeling!! think I maybe get a mac ? lol


"


I've been using Xubuntu and the monitor setup was really easy. Install arandr when you first get it up and running..in the Ubuntu software center. Then run arandr (should be in your System Settings), pull your dual monitors out where you want them and apply. Save the setup to your home folder (I called mine default.sh for simplicity's sake). Open the your *.*.sh in a text editor and put the line "sleep 5" without the quotes right underneath the top bash line and save.


Go to your Setup Manager/System Manager or whatever your system calls it and Select the Session and Startup. Go to the Application Autostart tab and hit the plus sign to add a new command. Name it Dual Monitors or whatever you want to call it, in the description put the same and in the Command field, migrate to the default.sh script. Hit ok and reboot. You should be good to go :).


Sounds like a lot but it doesn't take very long. Heh.


There is also instructions here if the above doesn't help :). Dynamically settings the xrandr tool is probably the easiest way.


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:18 pm

Good to hear (read?), Laurie.


About the only reason I still go into Windows now - on my desktop - is Poser Pro 2012. And then, it's just for posing a scene, not for rendering. This may change with Poser 10 - yes, I *am* going to upgrade when it comes out - but if they stick with Firefly, I sort-of doubt it. Not because Cycles is so incredibly better... it appears to be targeted for the animation artist more than for stills, but the stuff I'm playing with in Blender's/Cycles' material thingie is just so much more flexible.


As Linux becomes more and more mainstream, I can see that the big software houses will give that platform more and more consideration. Microsoft FUD aside - the 1% of desktop penetration being refuted by Ballmer *himself* back in 2009! - more and more people are quietly abandoning Windows for an OS that *doesn't* call attention to itself, just works diligently away, and - once you have things set up the way you want them - pretty much stays in the background where an OS and its GUI belong.


Saying that, I do hope that Adobe and Smith-Micro see their way clear to bringing their main apps (Photoshop and Poser) over to the Linux platform. Photoshop runs fine in VirtualBox: Poser just doesn't. And I find I can't do without either one.


____________________

Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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LaurieA  

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Posted Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:41 pm, Edited Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Seems to me that if they made Blender work like a charm in Linux they could do with Poser without too much trouble...a lot of it is Python after all, just like Blender :). Would be awful nice to see. I only have 6 gigs of ram, but when I have 5 or 6 programs open in Linux AND running video, my proc stays low and the ram stays at about 13% with no swap...that's pretty flipping awesome ;). Windows hogs 30% of my ram just on opening. LOL. Open Linux with nothing else running except the background apps and two conkys it's in the single digits. Amazing.


Laurie

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RobynsVeil  

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Posted Fri, Feb 15, 2013 5:54 pm, Edited Fri, Feb 15, 2013 5:55 pm

Wasn't Poser originally a Qt (which is now FOSS) product? or am I thinking of DazStudio?


Believe it or not, I've actually embarked on the - very-long-range - mission to learn C (learning about the char variable, which has me confused, because it's a one-byte thing of type int? well, which is it, intereger or character? - aren't you glad you're not trying to teach me C? ).


And am becoming slowly more appreciative of just how complex it is to port *legacy* programs from one platform to another. I emphasize 'legacy' because there appears to be a tendency of software developers now to keep the OS-specific stuff separate to the core app, thereby ensuring the app at its core is OS-agnostic. I'm seeing this in Gambas development, specifically which, whilst only claiming full 'nix compatibility, is focused creating a multi-OS environment, eventually.


The drawback with Blender and Cycles and CUDA appears to be GPU-memory-related. Simple scenes: fine, no dramas. But I quickly reach that memory limit adding a figure and hair and props, even with my newly acquired 580GTX card with 1.5 gig RAM. And for GPU to work, I find myself operating on a fairly narrow table: smallish scene, NVidia-only and no OSL support. Anyway, that's where things are currently... things change, though, particularly in the Blender-sphere.

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Mint 17/Win7 :: Blender 2.71 :: PoserPro 2014 (inches) / Matmatic :: CS3 / GIMP
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[we realise that people hold in contempt that which they do not understand] 

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heddheld  

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Posted Sat, Feb 16, 2013 1:12 pm

dont quote me on this but I think poser started as an aid for artists (?) sure all it had in begining was the manikin wooden doll


got my monitors sorted with some help from my lad ;-) like mint but not had time to beat it into shape yet lol heck not had time to scratch me (insert blush) still got "issues" with mouse (rat5) have a confi.x (not sure thats right but know which file to edit when I get there) but as a work around skipping modes makes it work again ;-)


RV use smaller textures files where you can!! the ram thing is a pain and gpu's with a ton of ram aint cheap and I really h8 that if you have 2 gpus you only get the smaller cards ram arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh such is life


you had a look at octane? really like to know whats goin on with pricing! demo is awesome


again dont quote me but I think blender started on linux an was ported to windoze


poser will NEVER work well under linux cos it tied into IE


 


 

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