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 Subject: Figure Morphs

Darchind opened this issue on Jan 15, 2013 · 10 posts

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  Darchind ()  ( posted at 12:42PM Tue, 15 January 2013 · edited on 12:42PM Tue, 15 January 2013

I'm not sure if this is 3DS Max or Poser specific, but since figure morphs concern both but are required to be made in 3DS Max, I thought I would post this here.

From what I have gathered, creating figure morphs -- such as making a skirt blowing in the wind, making a jacket open and close, etc. -- is done in 3DS Max. The idea is to export the desired figure from Poser in .obj format, then load it in 3DS Max. It will default to Editable Mesh, so you are to convert it to Editable Poly. Manipulate the vertices with the Freeform tools, then convert back to Editable Mesh and re-save in .obj format.

I understand this process, but I also understand that you can only manipulate the vertices within a polygonal group. So for instance, if you create a morph for the left collar of a figure, the vertices must be within that left collar.

If you wanted to manipulate a morph for the vertices in both the left collar and the abdomen, would you have to make the left collar and abdomen a single group, or can you create a morph for more than one group simultaneously?

To generalize:

Is it possible to create a single morph that warps the mesh at both the left collar and abdomen, or is it absolutely necessary to make the left collar and abdomen a single group?


  FrankT ()  ( posted at 1:25PM Tue, 15 January 2013 

I suspect you are going to get a more definitive answer (at least regarding what Poser requires) in the Poser forum.  Poser is a bit of a dirty word round here apparently :biggrin:

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  wheatpenny ()  ( posted at 1:49PM Tue, 15 January 2013 

Quote -   Poser is a bit of a dirty word round here apparently :biggrin:

 

It's been my observation that there isn't nearly as much anti-Poser sentiment here as there is on some of the 3dsMax sites and professional art sites like cg talk, etc, where people tend to judge art by the tools used to produce it.

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  LuxXeon ()  ( posted at 2:55PM Tue, 15 January 2013 

Quote -
From what I have gathered, creating figure morphs -- such as making a skirt blowing in the wind, making a jacket open and close, etc. -- is done in 3DS Max.

Most people that I know of who make models and/or content for Poser do it using applications that are far less complex, and have fewer tools, than 3dsmax; like Hexagon or Carrara.  I know many do morphing with Zbrush or Sculptris too.  That said, I don't have any experience creating anything for Poser.  No idea how it handles scale, morphs, rigging; nothing.  So unless there are other Poser users here who are willing to help you, I'd suggest asking this in the Poser forum for a quicker and more accurate response.

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  LuxXeon ()  ( posted at 3:30PM Tue, 15 January 2013 

Quote -

Quote -   Poser is a bit of a dirty word round here apparently :biggrin:

 

It's been my observation that there isn't nearly as much anti-Poser sentiment here as there is on some of the 3dsMax sites and professional art sites like cg talk, etc, where people tend to judge art by the tools used to produce it.

CGtalk is 90% about technique of creating a 3D scene or animation.  So when you intend to discuss the technical aspect of how you went about creating your art, then the tools you used become an important focus of conversation, and especially when you have young people who are trying to get into a particular studio, or work in a particular field of 3D, where the studios in that field may rely heavily on a particular brand of software in their pipelines, for whatever reasons.  Yes, the software used and how things were made are very important, and do take center stage on many 3d related websites, for many reasons.

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  FrankT ()  ( posted at 1:09PM Wed, 16 January 2013 

I am merely going by the comments of certain people who frequent the Max forums.  A fair few of the pro's at CGTalk appear to be of the opinion that provided the client likes the result then the tool used is irrelevant - if you can do it faster (and therefore cheaper) using a Poser model then all to the good

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  wheatpenny ()  ( posted at 1:36PM Wed, 16 January 2013 · edited on 1:36PM Wed, 16 January 2013

I've been asked a few times why , if I have 3dsMax, why I still continue to use Poser, Bryce, Daz Studio, etc.  I prefer to use whatever tools will get me the result I'm looking for.  A look at my gallery shows that I use a variety of programs.

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________________________________________________________________

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(Windows 8.1)


  LuxXeon ()  ( posted at 2:12PM Wed, 16 January 2013 · edited on 2:27PM Wed, 16 January 2013

Quote - I am merely going by the comments of certain people who frequent the Max forums.  A fair few of the pro's at CGTalk appear to be of the opinion that provided the client likes the result then the tool used is irrelevant - if you can do it faster (and therefore cheaper) using a Poser model then all to the good

I agree with that philosophy to a degree, especially if you're on a deadline, etc.  However, as a student, I believe it can be difficult to learn the full potential of any one software (especially one as robust as 3dsmax, with the ability to do almost anything you need it to do) if you constantly bounce from one app to another to get a job done.  My experience, and what we are actually taught in our class, is to try to keep as much of the workflow within a consolidated application, or suite of applications, as possible.  Once you start having to export elements of a project back and forth between seperate applications via non-native translation methods (like .obj), then many problems can arise.  Luckily, Autodesk has a pretty good interactivity between its set of applications, so keeping a fluid workflow between say Revit and 3dsmax, or Maya and Max is headache-free; but some of these other "specialized" softwares, that claim to be so user-friendly, aren't so much when you try to get them to play nice with the higher end apps.  The only application I find an essential suppliment to 3dsmax is Zbrush (or Mudbox, which is even more closely tied into the Autodesk pipeline).  For human models, when I need them in a pinch, and don't have time to model one from scratch, I'll reach for either some pre-rigged Biped figures, MakeHuman, or DazStudio.

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  LuxXeon ()  ( posted at 4:12PM Wed, 16 January 2013 

One last thing... saying that Poser is easier to use than 3dsmax for it's specific purpose may be true, but it's assuming the person has already had experience in that application before, and has it in their toolbox.  It may actually be easier for someone, already owning 3dsmax, to learn how to model their own generic human figure once, then rig it, and use it just like a poser figure... adding morphs and customization to it as they see fit, rather than spending more money on Poser, and then time learning how to use it, then struggling to incorporate the output to their Max workflow.  A good natively-rigged human figure in Max would be more flexible in a Max pipeline anyway.

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  Tracybee ()  ( posted at 5:34AM Sat, 19 January 2013 


Hi,

About all this cloth stuff and wind effects etc.

For you Poser folks:

Poser has a "Wind Force Field." This creates a wind force that adds realstic wind effects to Dynamic cloth.

Hopefully you can see my little GIF anim which shows this wind effect on the clothes.

I made the Shawl and the Dress in Max ( takes about ten minutes at most). Very basic mesh with holes for head and arms.

Imported to Poser, placed clothing on a Poser Figure and used Poser's "Cloth Room Simulator" to "clothify" the clothing....

Then used Poser's Object>Create Wind Force to set up a little gale with some turbulance

Then when rendering, the effects of this "wind force" is calculated and the outcome is as the GIF anim shows.

This is by far the easiest and most accurate way of "morphing, making a skirt blowing in the wind or making a jacket open and close etc etc.

No messy hard work with key frames and weird morphs.

The whole cloth will react to the movement of the "wind" as it might in real wind.

So if you must use Poser then read up on this and act accordingly. Use Max to make your clothing..I'll be glad to help if you wish.

Max is a surperbly easy tool for making Poser clothing of all types. Simple and quick as well.

Max can also do Dynamic stuff with meshes too..and do it SO much better than Poser...well in my humble opinion anyway :)

 

 


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