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 Subject: Decals for Bryce 3D Models

Agent0013 opened this issue on Aug 10, 2012 · 26 posts

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  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 10:48AM Fri, 10 August 2012 

I'm trying to learn how to make decals for my 3D models that I make in Bryce 7 Pro. What I want is things like starship registry numbers, logos, paint designs, and so on; however, I wish to keep the underlying textures and materials that I applied before exporting the model as a .obj file. I have downloaded a few models that have been mapped in this way for use in my Bryce scenes, so I know that the different UV mapping programs are able to do this.

I have the following software installed that are relevant to this:

Bryce 7 Pro - The program I wish to use for creating my 3D models and the completed scenes;

Wings3D - Has a simple to use UV mapping feature, but as I have only recently downloaded it, I still have a lot to learn;

Blender - Has a UV mapping feature which I have used for applying colors to specified face groups, but have not yet learned how to import image maps;

Hexagon - Similar to Blender in many ways. I do not know if it can be used for UV mapping, but it might;

Gimp 2 - Does not have a UV mapping feature, but can be used to apply images to a UV map if I'm not mistaken;

Microsoft Office 2007 PowerPoint - This is one of the programs I want to use to create the images that I wish to apply to my UV map, as it has several fonts and shapes that can be used to make images, and can save the images in several formats;

Project Dogwaffle - An excellent paint program that can be used for creating images and editing existing ones including photos;

The only program I am unsure of for this type of thing is Hexagon; of which my version is 2.5 Pro.

I understand that it is possible to import .obj files into Wings3D, Blender, Hexagon, and Bryce. I also know that the UV mapped model must be saved as a separate .obj file with the UV mapping applied, and that the UV mapped model with the image maps applied must also be saved as a separate .obj file. How to export a UV map to Gimp is something I am not familiar with, and would appreciate some help with.

All the tutorials I have found so far are either incomplete or hard to follow for a new user like me. I have only been doing digital art since August 2011. I have learned a lot and can do some fantastic work, but now I wish to step up to the next level, which for me would be UV mapping and applying image maps to my models.

I will appreciate any suggestions, easy to follow tutorials, and so on from whomever is willing to contribute to this thread.

Thank you,

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 5:24PM Fri, 10 August 2012 

Welcome to the forum. 

I would recommend Hexagon ahead of Blender and Wings.  Things come in here from Blender and Wings that have bad problems related to the uv mapping.  I have used Hexagon as a modeler and it is very good for that.  I have not used the mapping feature though.   But it is supposed to have a very good uv mapping feature from what I have read about it.

I recommend UV Mapper Pro to everyone because it is what I am familiar with.  If you go with one of the other apps to do your uv mapping in,  there are members here who will be able to help you out.  So choose an app and dive right in.

I have used Bryce since the free version 5.5 and do most of my rendering there. 

 

Here are my Bryce Freebies.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  airflamesred ()  ( posted at 5:34PM Fri, 10 August 2012 

Bryce would be your final render. It only models with booleans, so give it a miss from that aspect - I imagine it exports with some questionable UVs. Wings, hexagon or blender have adequate UV tools. This is really where you want to model from as you can sort out the UVs as you go. Look at the interface of these modelors and make your own choice.

Once your UVs are set out as you wish, you can then use dogwaffle, PSP or photoshop.

One area you may have missed here is mesh painting. It may be useful or not - but the quality of your UVs is of importance at this stage.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 6:21PM Fri, 10 August 2012 

Quote -

Welcome to the forum. 

I would recommend Hexagon ahead of Blender and Wings.  Things come in here from Blender and Wings that have bad problems related to the uv mapping.  I have used Hexagon as a modeler and it is very good for that.  I have not used the mapping feature though.   But it is supposed to have a very good uv mapping feature from what I have read about it.

I recommend UV Mapper Pro to everyone because it is what I am familiar with.  If you go with one of the other apps to do your uv mapping in,  there are members here who will be able to help you out.  So choose an app and dive right in.

I have used Bryce since the free version 5.5 and do most of my rendering there. 

 

Here are my Bryce Freebies.

I will definitely check out your Bryce Freebies when I can. Today I have been having trouble with the internet connection. Thanks for the prompt reply. 

One question: Is UV Mapper Pro a free application?

Stay awesome!

Agent 013.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 6:35PM Fri, 10 August 2012 

Quote -

Bryce would be your final render. It only models with booleans, so give it a miss from that aspect - I imagine it exports with some questionable UVs. Wings, hexagon or blender have adequate UV tools. This is really where you want to model from as you can sort out the UVs as you go. Look at the interface of these modelors and make your own choice.

Once your UVs are set out as you wish, you can then use dogwaffle, PSP or photoshop.

One area you may have missed here is mesh painting. It may be useful or not - but the quality of your UVs is of importance at this stage.

I have done quite well with Bryce as far as modelling is concerned; however, I do model in Hexagon, Blender, and Wings3D as well. It all depends on what I am trying to create. Having multiple modelling applications allows me to create a single model through the use of all of them by means of creating a basic in one, moving the .obj to the next one, tweaking it there, and so on. Boolean operations can add features that would not be as easily done otherwise. Also, PowerPoint and Project Dogwaffle work well for creating height map templates that can be used in the Deep Terrain Editor in Bryce.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  Ravyns ()  ( posted at 7:00PM Fri, 10 August 2012 

Agent0013..  I've never worked with the Bryce booleans but I just tried exporting one as an object.  It made it's own uvmap when I exported from Bryce but they are messy & I wouldn't want to have to work with them.  Uvmapper (free) did an Ok job of box mapping but I still couldn't get it to take a texture.  I might have messed something up since I'd not done anything with booleans before.

Also.. If you've added any textures in Bryce, they export really well with the object.

**************************************************************************************

Life may not be the party we hoped for but while we're here we should dance.

 

Renderosity Content Paradise Yurdigital


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 9:58AM Sat, 11 August 2012 · edited on 9:59AM Sat, 11 August 2012

Quote -

Agent0013..  I've never worked with the Bryce booleans but I just tried exporting one as an object.  It made it's own uvmap when I exported from Bryce but they are messy & I wouldn't want to have to work with them.  Uvmapper (free) did an Ok job of box mapping but I still couldn't get it to take a texture.  I might have messed something up since I'd not done anything with booleans before.

Also.. If you've added any textures in Bryce, they export really well with the object.

Thank you, Ravyns, for letting me know about textures exporting with the object from Bryce.

Let me tell you how I export a booleaned object group and keep the materials from getting mixed up. When you create an object using several positive and negative shapes, add the textures and materials you want on each shape before clicking on the G square, (G is not available unless more than one shape is selected). Next click the G with all shapes you want to be part of the group selected. This creates a group of shapes that interact with each other according to which is positive and which is negative, (Negatives cut out the area of the positives that they share three dimensional space with and transfer their materials to the positive at the intersection boundary). A new square will appear to the right of the newly formed group with a C in it. Clicking on the C converts the booleaned group to a mesh. All the materials will still be where they were before but the mesh will become a single object in Bryce. If you export this as a .obj file, it will keep all of the materials in place when imported into other programs or back into Bryce. That is how I understand the process; however, I suggest you try this yourself to see if it works right. Let me know If I am right or wrong about this.

I'll check out UVmapper and see what it has to offer.

Stay awesome! 

Agent 0013.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 6:28PM Sat, 11 August 2012 

I looked in on the UVMapper website and liked what I read there. After looking in on it, I checked out a few reviews of the software, and some other comparable ones. I then went back to the website and tried downloading the classic for Windows version. I got a message from my antivirus program saying that it could potentially harm my computer, so I clicked discard.

Is there a problem with the software that makes it not completely compatible with Windows? I have Windows 7 Home Premium on a Toshiba Satellite with 500 Gb hard drive and 4 Gb RAM.

I cannot afford the Pro version of UVMapper, so if I get a version, it will have to be the free classic version. 

Please advise me as to what I should do. Is it safe or not?

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 8:19PM Sat, 11 August 2012 

It is safe.  You can go ahead and download it.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 11:11AM Sun, 12 August 2012 

Quote - It is safe.  You can go ahead and download it.

Thanks for clearing that up. I have only been using computers for about three years now. It was a required course in my college studies, so to stay on top of it I purchased my laptop PC. I learned a lot and found that it was easier to do than I ever would have dreamed.

I got into digital art about two years ago using PowerPoint to create my own program. I was able to do some great stuff, but the program falls short where certain types of objects are concerned. That is why I downloaded several 3D digital art programs, which I now use together, (including PowerPoint), to create my art pieces.

My reason for telling you this is to help you understand that, while I am already proficient with a computer in many ways, I still do not know many things about it, and I want to learn as much as I can. As I have been an artist all of my life, it is the logical choice of work for me in whatever medium has the most to offer in that field. 

So, when I ask a question about something that many of you may already understand, it is because I am unsure about the way it works. I thank you for you help and your patience with me.

Now that I have that said, I'll cut my chatter and get back to the suject of the main discussion.

Again, I thank you.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 12:34PM Sun, 12 August 2012 · edited on 12:36PM Sun, 12 August 2012

I just acquired UVMapper Classic for Windows, and I also saved a copy of the tutorial that shows how to remap a nude girl figure from Poser 3. It is unclear which of the female figures is being used, but I do know that my version of Poser is part of my DAZ Studio 4 Pro software. Am I correct in thinking that I can use my Victoria 3 character base figure for the purposes of working with this tutorial? There may be some differences in the figure the tutorial uses from the V3 figure.

I think the main focus of the tutorial is to teach the steps one needs to take to remap a figure or model, and that the figure used is somewhat irrelevant, other than being something to work with. Is this correct?

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 7:30PM Sun, 12 August 2012 

Yes you can use V3 from DAZStudio.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 10:00PM Sun, 12 August 2012 

Quote - Yes you can use V3 from DAZStudio.

I tried using V3, but when I imported the figure into UVMapper it showed up as several flattened meshes all overlapping each other and did not look at all like the example in the screen capture provided. I think the file was not saved with the information in the correct form. I am at a loss as to what settings to use when exporting the figure from DAZ Studio 4. Perhaps you or someone here could help me with this.

The Screen capture that shows what settings to use for the export does not resemble mine in any way. I'm not sure what version of Poser is built into DAZ Studio 4 Pro, but I do know that it is far removed from the Poser 3 version used for the tutorial.

At any rate I am for the moment experimenting with a model I created in Blender. I exported it as a Wavefront .obj so that I can import it into each of the programs that have UV mapping features to see what I can do with each. As I am searching for as much information as I can find on each of them, I figure that at some time in the future I will have a preference. More than likely it will be UVMapper, but I shall continue to use the others when the work requires.

I have imported the model into Bryce 7 to add a texture, And will export it with the texture and then import it back into Blender to see if the textures will import with it intact. If so I will use the materials feature to add colored patterns to the surface. When I take it back to Bryce, if everything works correctly, I will render a scene and upload it for you to see. You can be my art critic; and tell me what you think. If you like it, or if you don't, I want to know. This is how I will know what I need to improve to make my product one people will want.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  airflamesred ()  ( posted at 2:54AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

Why not do the UVs in blender?


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 9:02AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

Quote -

Quote - Yes you can use V3 from DAZStudio.

I tried using V3, but when I imported the figure into UVMapper it showed up as several flattened meshes all overlapping each other and did not look at all like the example in the screen capture provided. I think the file was not saved with the information in the correct form. I am at a loss as to what settings to use when exporting the figure from DAZ Studio 4. Perhaps you or someone here could help me with this.

The Screen capture that shows what settings to use for the export does not resemble mine in any way. I'm not sure what version of Poser is built into DAZ Studio 4 Pro, but I do know that it is far removed from the Poser 3 version used for the tutorial.

At any rate I am for the moment experimenting with a model I created in Blender. I exported it as a Wavefront .obj so that I can import it into each of the programs that have UV mapping features to see what I can do with each. As I am searching for as much information as I can find on each of them, I figure that at some time in the future I will have a preference. More than likely it will be UVMapper, but I shall continue to use the others when the work requires.

I have imported the model into Bryce 7 to add a texture, And will export it with the texture and then import it back into Blender to see if the textures will import with it intact. If so I will use the materials feature to add colored patterns to the surface. When I take it back to Bryce, if everything works correctly, I will render a scene and upload it for you to see. You can be my art critic; and tell me what you think. If you like it, or if you don't, I want to know. This is how I will know what I need to improve to make my product one people will want.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.

"I tried using V3, but when I imported the figure into UVMapper it showed up as several flattened meshes all overlapping each other and did not look at all like the example in the screen capture provided. I think the file was not saved with the information in the correct form. I am at a loss as to what settings to use when exporting the figure from DAZ Studio 4. Perhaps you or someone here could help me with this."

"The Screen capture that shows what settings to use for the export does not resemble mine in any way."

The above statements are no longer an issue. I tried it again to see if I could get it to resemble the screen capture. What I learned was that in my first attempt at loading the figure I had the first two steps in the tutorial switched. I now have a remapped figure of V3. It does not have any new materials applied as of yet. I still need to learn that process.

Can I import the new map into a paint program and create the image maps there, or do I create the new image map as a stand alone and then use a separate program to apply to the new mapped figure?

Stay awesome.

Agent 0013.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 9:25AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

Quote - Why not do the UVs in blender?

As it is my understanding that Blender does have a great UV mapping feature coupled with it, I will be using it in the future. My only excuse for not doing that now is that I have not learned enough about it yet. So at this time I will work with what I am already familiar with, and what I have just acquired the information to learn how to use; such as UVMapper Classic.

I have at least four programs that can be used for the UV mapping operation. I do not plan to deep six any of them in the future, because according to a report concerning the process, each of them have their pros and cons. What might work really well with one type of object may not work so well with another.

By the way, when I imported my model back into Blender after assigning a texture to it in Bryce, (and exporting it as a new .obj), it did not import the textures. Since I really like those textures for my model, I plan to render an image of the texture on a flat surface in 1024 x 1024 resolution for use in the other programs. Thus it may be that I will use Blender to UV map the model and to assign the texture. I still need to learn how to create bump maps in Blender though.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 9:49AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

As I have already mentioned, I was able to solve one of my problems with the V3 figure imported into UVMapper. I have created a new UV map and saved it and the figure as new renamed files. It turned out to be pretty cut and dried easy. There were of course extra meshes that needed to be worked with; however, with the instructions in the tutorial, I had little trouble performing the neccessary steps.

What I need to know now is how to assign materials to the different parts of the map. Do I create my image maps and then apply them? If not, do I import the new map into a paint program. create image maps, and apply them there? Or is there a different way of assigning materials?

I know that the existing UV maps in Poser and DAZ Studio often have several materials that can be applied to them. It is my plan to do the same for the models I create.

By the way, I am not disappointed at all with UVMapper. It is every bit as awesome as you have indicated, and I thank you big time!

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 9:59AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

Just so you understand.  POSER  is not built into DAZStudio.  Poser and DAZStudio are two different programs built by two competing companies.  However most poseable figures sold for one will probably work on the other.  The exception is the Genesis figure for DAZStudio 4 which will not work in Poser.

Do not forget that we also have a  Bryce forum and a Blender forum and a DAZStudio forum and while they do not encourage discussion about UV Mapper Classic, they do like to hear what folks are doing with Bryce, Blender, and DAZStudio.  And the folks in the Blender forum can tell you how the Blender uv mapping works.  I cannot because I do not use Blender.

I like your plan about rendering a Bryce texture for use in other programs.  I have done that also.  Don't forget to make it seamless if you can.

When loading a figure to uv map, it is best to copy the figure from the Geometries folder than to use a figure that is exported.

 

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 11:33AM Mon, 13 August 2012 

Quote -

Just so you understand.  POSER  is not built into DAZStudio.  Poser and DAZStudio are two different programs built by two competing companies.  However most poseable figures sold for one will probably work on the other.  The exception is the Genesis figure for DAZStudio 4 which will not work in Poser.

Do not forget that we also have a  Bryce forum and a Blender forum and a DAZStudio forum and while they do not encourage discussion about UV Mapper Classic, they do like to hear what folks are doing with Bryce, Blender, and DAZStudio.  And the folks in the Blender forum can tell you how the Blender uv mapping works.  I cannot because I do not use Blender.

I like your plan about rendering a Bryce texture for use in other programs.  I have done that also.  Don't forget to make it seamless if you can.

When loading a figure to uv map, it is best to copy the figure from the Geometries folder than to use a figure that is exported.

 

So the Poser in DAZ Studio's content library is not the same as the other software. Thank you for clearing that up. Nearly all of my DAZ Studio content is found under the Poser part of the library, (I think it is named "Poser Formats"). The "DAZ Studio Formats" listing has most of the content that came with the software, such as the Genesis base, its morphs, and so on.

In reference to the Blender, Bryce, and DAZ Studio forums, I know about them and have participated in two of them thus far. I have also looked in on the Wings3D forum, where I am in the process of acquiring Dr. Geep's UV mapping tutorial. He uploads a new page in the forum rather than putting it under the tutorials section of Renderosity's website.

Thanks for the compliment on my plan to render Bryce textures for use in other programs, and for the advice concerning making it seamless if possible. The texture I want to use this way is an image map form that cannot be modified to larger or smaller size in the Deep Texture Editor; however, I think it is a seamless one. It may be possible to navigate to the location of that image map on my computer, and copy it  for use in other applications. I will check into that.

Regarding your suggestion:

"When loading a figure to uv map, it is best to copy the figure from the Geometries folder than to use a figure that is exported."

Thank you for that. I will try it and see what I can do with it.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  airflamesred ()  ( posted at 4:41PM Mon, 13 August 2012 

With correct UV mapping its a toss up between seams or distortion. For organic figures like P3 or V4 it really depends on how you want to texture it. There is no size fits all

The tools you want are LSCM. This is blenders default and I believe wings uses it, I'm not sure about classic - long time since I used it.

Here's a tut I did on LSCM for metasequoia. Should work for all others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siWfUiaNOtE&feature=plcp


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 9:25PM Mon, 13 August 2012 

You assign materials inside of UV Mapper Classic.  When you export your maps, they are there with it.  You paint the maps in whatever your favorite paint app is.  Most use photoshop, but I have Corel Photopaint and Paint Shop Pro.

Don't forget you can have multiple pages of maps.

Also you can make a texture seamless inside your paint program was well.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 10:47PM Mon, 13 August 2012 

I have Gimp, Project Dogwaffle, and Windows Paint. The latter is low resolution quality for creating patterns and materials using just that program. It is good for its save as feature, but PowerPoint can be used to better purpose for that because of the many formats it can convert a file to. I can even create a PDF document using PowerPoint.

Of the other progams I have, Project Dogwaffle is great for creating image maps, but it only recognizes and saves in .bmp and Targa formats.

Gimp is great for a whole lot of tasks, including the image map creating job. I still do not know a lot about it but I'm actively working to learn, as I think it will be the best one to use for my purposes for now.

Is there a paint program you could suggest that is free and a good one to use for image maps and texture maps?

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 7:09PM Tue, 14 August 2012 

I do not know of any good free image editors.  Sorry.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 12:08AM Wed, 15 August 2012 

Quote - I do not know of any good free image editors.  Sorry.

No need  to apologize. I'll make do with what I have. Most of it is pretty good for the purpose.

Stay awesome!

Agent 0013.


  UVDan ()  ( posted at 3:14PM Wed, 15 August 2012 · edited on 3:15PM Wed, 15 August 2012


Hey check out Magix.  I have used both of these free programs and they are good.  Magix will send you information in your email about the new programs, but it's a small price to pay for using these.  Neither is a paint program, but one is for editing photos and the other is for  archiving your photos into albums and slide shows.  I edited the photo shown here with Magix.

Free men do not ask permission to bear arms!!


  Agent0013 ()  ( posted at 9:37AM Thu, 16 August 2012 

Quote - Hey check out Magix.  I have used both of these free programs and they are good.  Magix will send you information in your email about the new programs, but it's a small price to pay for using these.  Neither is a paint program, but one is for editing photos and the other is for  archiving your photos into albums and slide shows.  I edited the photo shown here with Magix.

Boy! I bet he can see a long way!


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